Whaduya got...

[Dan_ref]

Happened in camp. Guard A1 drives lane from the 3 pt line,
right down the middle. Big man B1 sets up in front of, but
not under the basket. B1 is completely legal, standing there
with both hands straight up. A1 picks up his dribble, goes
up for the shot, realizes there's no way he's getting the
ball over B1. While in the air A1 tosses the ball into B1's
stomach and catches it before he hits the ground. No contact. What's the call?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Happened in camp. Guard A1 drives lane from the 3 pt line,
right down the middle. Big man B1 sets up in front of, but
not under the basket. B1 is completely legal, standing there
with both hands straight up. A1 picks up his dribble, goes
up for the shot, realizes there's no way he's getting the
ball over B1. While in the air A1 tosses the ball into B1's
stomach and catches it before he hits the ground. No contact. What's the call?

T'aint no call.It's legal.Rulebook 9-5-3 and Casebook 9.5.3Sit.

[LarryS]

I agree, no call. Sounds like A1 attempted a pass. OK, sounds like A1 left the floor when he shouldn't have but thought fast enough to aviod a foul or violation.

Wish I could think that fast when I mess up.

[bard]

For the sake of argument, I'm going to disagree with y'all. (Not stronly, mind you, but we need some discussion on this board!) Could we possibly consider this a travel?

In case 9.5.3, the player was trying to pass to his teammate. This does not appear to be the situation in this example. A1 tossed the ball into B1's gut. (For the sake of argument, let's just assume that no other A player was in the area, and this was clearly not a pass attempt to a teammate.)

Could we consider this a "pass" to B1? 4-31 defines a pass as "movement of the ball caused by a player who throws, bats or rolls the ball to another player." This definition does not stipulate the receiving player has to be on the same team. I might, however, state that A1 did not throw the ball to B1 but rather at B1.

The second consideration appears to be whether or not A1 lost control of the ball. I'm not sure of the answer to this question, even after reviewing player and team control. My gut reaction, without being there, is player control was not lost.

Therefore, to spur on discussion, I'm going to say I have no pass, no loss of player control, and therefore will whistle a travel.

[Andy]

Originally posted by bard
For the sake of argument, I'm going to disagree with y'all. (Not stronly, mind you, but we need some discussion on this board!) Could we possibly consider this a travel?

In case 9.5.3, the player was trying to pass to his teammate. This does not appear to be the situation in this example. A1 tossed the ball into B1's gut. (For the sake of argument, let's just assume that no other A player was in the area, and this was clearly not a pass attempt to a teammate.)

Could we consider this a "pass" to B1? 4-31 defines a pass as "movement of the ball caused by a player who throws, bats or rolls the ball to another player." This definition does not stipulate the receiving player has to be on the same team. I might, however, state that A1 did not throw the ball to B1 but rather at B1.

The second consideration appears to be whether or not A1 lost control of the ball. I'm not sure of the answer to this question, even after reviewing player and team control. My gut reaction, without being there, is player control was not lost.

Therefore, to spur on discussion, I'm going to say I have no pass, no loss of player control, and therefore will whistle a travel.

For the sake of argument, great....

I want to see you sell this to Coach A, though!!!

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by bard
For the sake of argument, I'm going to disagree with y'all. (Not stronly, mind you, but we need some discussion on this board!) Could we possibly consider this a travel?

In case 9.5.3, the player was trying to pass to his teammate. This does not appear to be the situation in this example. A1 tossed the ball into B1's gut. (For the sake of argument, let's just assume that no other A player was in the area, and this was clearly not a pass attempt to a teammate.)

Could we consider this a "pass" to B1? 4-31 defines a pass as "movement of the ball caused by a player who throws, bats or rolls the ball to another player." This definition does not stipulate the receiving player has to be on the same team. I might, however, state that A1 did not throw the ball to B1 but rather at B1.

The second consideration appears to be whether or not A1 lost control of the ball. I'm not sure of the answer to this question, even after reviewing player and team control. My gut reaction, without being there, is player control was not lost.

Therefore, to spur on discussion, I'm going to say I have no pass, no loss of player control, and therefore will whistle a travel.

Bard --

Okay, here's some discussion. What aabout the play where a player is oob, throws the ball against the back of an oppoonent, steps in-bounds ahd then catches the ball? That's legal, isn't it? I see the same principles here.

But also keep in mind that on this board the only topics that are allowed to generate a huge amount of discussion are 1) whether HS games shhould be reffed by NBA rules, especially the block/charge rule, and the restricted area;
2) whether, after a made basket, if a player scoops up the ball and passes it forward without stepping oob, the call is a violation, or a five-second call, or a delay of game warning;
3) whether Jeff R., and Tony H., are allowed to snipe at each other more than 3 posts apiece.

[Edited by rainmaker on Aug 30th, 2002 at 05:08 PM]

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by rainmaker
Okay, here's some discussion. What aabout the play where a player is oob, throws the ball against the back of an oppoonent, steps in-bounds ahd then catches the ball? That's legal, isn't it? I see the same principles here.

Not exactly the same principles, b/c in the OOB play you describe, there is no team control.

But also keep in mind that on this board the only topics that are allowed to generate a huge amount of discussion are 1) whether HS games shhould be reffed by NBA rules, especially the block/charge rule, and the restricted area;

No.

2) whether, after a made basket, if a player scoops up the ball and passes it forward without stepping oob, the call is a violation, or a five-second call, or a delay of game warning;

Violation. Always has been. I tried to tell you months ago

3) whether Jeff R., and Tony H., are allowed to snipe at each other more than 3 posts apiece.

They are, but I don't read the sniping.

At least we don't have discussion of "legitimate opportunities to make thousands of dollars in only minutes a day" or of topics that begin with "jjjlksdiof"

Chuck

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

T'aint no call.It's legal.Rulebook 9-5-3 and Casebook 9.5.3Sit.

Freakin' rules guys.

We had the no call also, although I gotta admit it was
more like a "not-so-sure call" on my part - don't call what
you can't explain. One of the coaches disagreed, can you
guess which one?

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Violation. Always has been. I tried to tell you months ago

Chuck

[Ralph Stubenthal]

How did you get the cartoon of the guy bashing his head on the keyboard into your reply? Really cool!