Traveling Help!?

[CDurham]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

Technically there is no pivot foot in this situation (see 4.44.2). Although it might seem counterintuitive, this is specifically allowed by rule. Note this only applies while dribbling or moving, you can't stop, establish a pivot foot and then try to make this move.

Okay so catching the ball or dribbling is okay. But if I stop a dribble then try or receive a pass its traveling?

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by CDurham

Okay so catching the ball or dribbling is okay. But if I stop a dribble then try or receive a pass its traveling?

It basically applies to a moving player gathering or receiving the ball, allowing him/her to jump off one foot and land on both simultaneously.

The way I interpret it is that it is all one continuous action, so if the gathering or receiving is one action, and then the jump stop is another, I view it as illegal. Judgement call, though I err on the side of legal if there is doubt.

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

It basically applies to a moving player gathering or receiving the ball, allowing him/her to jump off one foot and land on both simultaneously.

The way I interpret it is that it is all one continuous action, so if the gathering or receiving is one action, and then the jump stop is another, I view it as illegal. Judgement call, though I err on the side of legal if there is doubt.

The way I interpret is it gives a moving player an opportunity to come to a stop without requiring that it be "immediate". Imagine how hard it would be if you considered that the foot touching the ground on the catch/gather was the pivot and a player could not lift and return that foot to the ground - in certain situations that move is near impossible, thus the allowance for the jump stop.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

It basically applies to a moving player gathering or receiving the ball, allowing him/her to jump off one foot and land on both simultaneously.

The way I interpret it is that it is all one continuous action, so if the gathering or receiving is one action, and then the jump stop is another, I view it as illegal. Judgement call, though I err on the side of legal if there is doubt.

I disagree. If a player has a foot in the air, I consider them to be moving. Standing on one foot is not a steady-state situation. They may be moving slowly, but they're still moving.

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I disagree. If a player has a foot in the air, I consider them to be moving. Standing on one foot is not a steady-state situation. They may be moving slowly, but they're still moving.

I agree - 4-44-2 does not reference any amount of time limit for the player to be allowed to jump off of that foot and land on both feet. As long as they are moving when they catch/gather the ball and land on one foot, I think you are covered by rule. Although it would not look good..

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I disagree. If a player has a foot in the air, I consider them to be moving. Standing on one foot is not a steady-state situation. They may be moving slowly, but they're still moving.

This is a valid point, and if you judge the player is still moving then it's all part of that action.

Honestly, I don't think I've ever called a violation for what I described as two separate actions, but I think I would if I judged a player had stopped on one foot, then jumped off it onto two. Would be a pretty awkward, unusual, and strange play.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I disagree. If a player has a foot in the air, I consider them to be moving. Standing on one foot is not a steady-state situation. They may be moving slowly, but they're still moving.

Agreed. Movement is not the key. The key is when the second foot touches the floor. Until it does, there is no pivot foot.

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by CDurham

Okay so catching the ball or dribbling is okay. But if I stop a dribble then try or receive a pass its traveling?

I'm saying if you stopped a dribble, established a pivot foot, you could not jump off of that pivot foot and land on two feet, that would be travelling. In the case of a jump stop since the player is moving, the foot that they jump off of is not considered to be the pivot foot - there is no pivot foot in that case.

[CDurham]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

I'm saying if you stopped a dribble, established a pivot foot, you could not jump off of that pivot foot and land on two feet, that would be travelling. In the case of a jump stop since the player is moving, the foot that they jump off of is not considered to be the pivot foot - there is no pivot foot in that case.

So they can go left, right, left? Since their is no pivot foot in that case?

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by CDurham

So they can go left, right, left? Since their is no pivot foot in that case?

Nope. In that case the left foot is determined to be the pivot foot as soon as the right foot hit the ground. Therefore, when the left foot hits the ground again it is traveling.

If the ball is gathered or caught with one foot on the ground, that foot is always the pivot foot EXCEPT for the one clearly defined exception which is the jump stop, in which case there isn't a pivot foot.

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Nope. In that case the left foot is determined to be the pivot foot as soon as the right foot hit the ground. Therefore, when the left foot hits the ground again it is traveling.

If the ball is gathered or caught with one foot on the ground, that foot is always the pivot foot EXCEPT for the one clearly defined exception which is the jump stop, in which case there isn't a pivot foot.

Exactly..this is all laid out in 4-44, you just have to spend some time with it visualizing each different type of play.

[CDurham]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

Exactly..this is all laid out in 4-44, you just have to spend some time with it visualizing each different type of play.

Your right. I have a game tonight and that is all I've been doing today is acting out situations

[shutupneff]

It should also be noted that this whole lands-on-two-feet-no-pivot-foot scenario is only the case if the player still has a foot on the ground when the final dribble returns to his/her hands. If they're already airborne when the dribble is terminated, they can land on either foot first, with that foot being the pivot, or if both feet land at the same time, either may be the pivot. The latter scenario is often followed by the player stepping across with one foot and jumping of the non-pivot foot for a shot.