took a dive

[representing]

Boys Freshman game.

V1 been playing dirty all game, only a few fouls called on him at this point. At one point in the 3rd quarter, V has ball, shoots and misses. H1 rebounds and brings the ball up on my sideline where now I'm the new Lead. H1 running into a double team trap, and when he gets into the trap, I see V1 takes a jump with elbows up.

I freakin' tripped. Thought I tripped over a sub at the table (very little space between bench and sideline, with only a few inches between table and sideline), but HC of home team told me after the game he's pretty sure I tripped over myself. We had a good laugh about it then.

Back to the game... I was pretty sure V1 committed a flagrant act. But at the time of the foul, I was on my back and my partner blew his whistle to call a push. I asked him why he didn't call at least an intentional, and he responded, chuckling, that he was concerned for me to make sure I was ok. I told him "fine, I can't tell you it was intentional or flagrant as I didn't actually see it since I was on my back on the floor.

What should I have done? In my mind I KNEW he committed at least an intentional foul, but I didn't actually see it since I tripped. The player was acting all wild and out of control for the previous minutes up until this point, even took out his anger on a player by lightly shoving him. I gave him a warning for that, saying to chill out and knock it off. So it was one of those "you know it's going to happen, just a matter of when" moments.

Coach benched him for the rest of the game anyways, so we really didn't have any problems after that. H blew out V at the end of the game.

[asdf]

You can't stay on your own two feet (you ended up on your back, so I would say you were back pedaling) and you blame your partner for not calling what you didn't see?

[representing]

Originally Posted by asdf

You can't stay on your own two feet (you ended up on your back, so I would say you were back pedaling) and you blame your partner for not calling what you didn't see?

Wasn't blaming my partner. I just simply asked what he saw and he only saw a push from his angle but couldn't see if it was intentional, flagrant or just simple common foul.

What happened was I'm trail and when H rebounded the ball I turned to start running down the line and keeping my eyes on the players at the half court area. When I saw out of the corner of my eyes that the H player with the ball was going towards my side line, I tried to shift my body into a side pedaling position so I could still run to get under the basket while keeping my eyes on the players near the ball for any fouls or OOB. I could've sworn, and still do, that I was accidentally tripped by a sub. I went falling over on my side and then rolled to my back, just knowing I missed a flagrant act.

Let it be known that this is the first time, in 6 years, that I've tripped over myself or a sub. I have very good balance, I just happened to trip over myself this time.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by representing

The player was acting all wild and out of control for the previous minutes up until this point, even took out his anger on a player by lightly shoving him.
I gave him a warning for that, saying to chill out and knock it off. So it was one of those "you know it's going to happen, just a matter of when" moments.

If a player was acting all wild and out of control, then do something about it rather than complaining about it. If he's doing something illegal or unsporting, then damnwell call it. If he's not doing anything illegal or unsporting, then he's not your problem.

And you should have given that player that shoved his opponent an intentional personal foul if the ball was live or an intentional technical foul if the ball was dead. If you're afraid to take care of bidness, you've forfeited the right to whine about it afterwards.

It's always "just a matter of when" with you because you don't have a clue about what you're doing. That becomes more and more evident with every new one of these self-incriminatory posts that you make.

Lah me.......

[representing]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

If a player was acting all wild and out of control, then do something about it rather than complaining about it. If he's doing something illegal or unsporting, then damnwell call it. If he's not doing anything illegal or unsporting, then he's not your problem.

And you should have given that player that shoved his opponent an intentional personal foul if the ball was live or an intentional technical foul if the ball was dead. If you're afraid to take care of bidness, you've forfeited the right to whine about it afterwards.

It's always "just a matter of when" with you because you don't have a clue about what you're doing. That becomes more and more evident with every new one of these self-incriminatory posts that you make.

Lah me.......

It was a very light shove that just talking to him should have calmed him down.

When I said out of control and all, he wasn't doing anything illegal, and I wasn't complaining about anything. Get your facts straight.

I don't know what his problem was, he didn't get fouled hard or anything to retaliate about later in the game from what I can remember. He must have just broken up with his girlfriend or something.

[Jurassic Referee]

And the usual excuses as to why none of it it was his fault come pouring in.....

Six years from now you'll still be doing JV ball and b!tching about Rufus doing varsity games with way less seniority.

[asdf]

Originally Posted by representing

Get your facts straight.

Get your story straight......

Originally Posted by representing

Boys Freshman game.

V1 been playing dirty all game, only a few fouls called on him at this point.

The player was acting all wild and out of control for the previous minutes up until this point, even took out his anger on a player by lightly shoving him.

Remember.... you also were "pretty sure" he committed a flagrant foul and "knew" he committed at least an intentional foul.


I am at the point where I now am claiming Bullsh!t !! on your posts.... Nobody has this much crap happen to them in a month and a half.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by representing

What should I have done? In my mind I KNEW he committed at least an intentional foul, but I didn't actually see it since I tripped.

We get in trouble for calling what we know in our minds. It sounds like your partner bailed you out. I wouldn't even question him on it if you didn't see the contact well enough to make the call yourself.

[Welpe]

You can only call what you see. Anything else you're just going to be guessing.

[representing]

Originally Posted by asdf

Get your story straight......




Remember.... you also were "pretty sure" he committed a flagrant foul and "knew" he committed at least an intentional foul.


I am at the point where I now am claiming Bullsh!t !! on your posts.... Nobody has this much crap happen to them in a month and a half.

asdf? Read what I said. I know he had to have done it just with how the game's been going, his attitude, aim, etc. but I just simply did not see it with my back to the floor.

[representing]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

We get in trouble for calling what we know in our minds. It sounds like your partner bailed you out. I wouldn't even question him on it if you didn't see the contact well enough to make the call yourself.

Thanks Snaq. Yeah, he did help me a bunch with that one. He was probably in the same boat. Knew it was coming but couldn't see it actually happening because he was more concerned for my well-being than the player's.

Yet another great official to work with tonight. Two nights in a row, I'm feeling great.

[JPNY25]

Originally Posted by representing

I was pretty sure V1 committed a flagrant act. But at the time of the foul, I was on my back

In my mind I KNEW he committed at least an intentional foul

You can't KNOW or be SURE that he committed an intentional foul if you didn't SEE it.

This goes for everything that you call or don't call in a game. If you don't actually see it, how can you know it happened?

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

And the usual excuses as to why none of it it was his fault come pouring in.....

Six years from now you'll still be doing JV ball and b!tching about Rufus doing varsity games with way less seniority.

Thank you for posting what I've been thinking for some time now.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by representing

asdf? Read what I said. I know he had to have done it just with how the game's been going, his attitude, aim, etc. but I just simply did not see it with my back to the floor.

If he'd done enough prior to this that you KNEW he was going to do it, then there likely was an opportunity to correct his behavior prior.

If he'd done some things that indicated he MAY do something stupid, then you don't KNOW that he committed an intentional or flagrant act.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

If you're afraid to take care of bidness, you've forfeited the right to whine about it afterward.

I'm going to quibble with this little JR gem, the spirit of which I agree with completely.

No one has a right to whine: those who take care of bidness don't need to whine, and those who fail to take care of bidness don't deserve to.

As for the OP: come on, you can't call what you didn't see. It's just not that hard a principle to understand.