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-   -   Fight!!!!!!! (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/57008-fight.html)

Judtech Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 659994)
Please tell me that you were kidding when you wrote that.

If not, that statement ties for the dumbest ever made on this forum.
Yes I was joking, although the thought of holding the title "Dumbest Post Ever Made" is a very tempting.:D

Adam Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judtech (Post 660001)
Yes I was joking, although the thought of holding the title "Dumbest Post Ever Made" is a very tempting.:D
It's a very high bar. So high, in fact, you'll only be able to tie it no matter how hard you try.

tjones1 Tue Feb 09, 2010 01:01pm
I dunno... I guess I'll be the lone one here but I'm still getting rid of white #10.

After getting decked, he basically took a full step toward black #23 as he was walking away and shoved him in the back.

Again, just my take on the situation.

jdw3018 Tue Feb 09, 2010 01:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjones1 (Post 660025)
I dunno... I guess I'll be the lone one here but I'm still getting rid of white #10.

After getting decked, he basically took a full step toward black #23 as he was walking away and shoved him in the back.

Again, just my take on the situation.
If white #10 had shoved black #23 like that during a dead ball with no other action would you have run him?

I totally defend your right to run him, but the rationale would need to be the same regardless of other action.

Personally this is getting a T from me, and would at any other point in the game. It's not flagrant, IMO. He's also not getting a pass from me because B23 punched him. It was not to protect himself.

Jurassic Referee Tue Feb 09, 2010 01:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjones1 (Post 660025)
After getting decked, he basically took a full step toward black #23 as he was walking away and shoved him in the back.
Take a look at #23's right arm. He puts it on the l'il guy after the cheap shot, #10 kinda holds it for a second so that 23 can't smack him again with it, and that arm doesn't come off until #10 pushed him away.

#10 didn't retaliate by fighting. He protected himself from getting another cheap shot.

can't agree at all with you on that one, Tanner.

jdw3018 Tue Feb 09, 2010 01:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 660036)
Take a look at #23's right arm. He puts it on the l'il guy after the cheap shot, #10 kinda holds it for a second so that 23 can't smack him again with it, and that arm doesn't come off until #10 pushed him away.

#10 didn't retaliate by fighting. He protected himself from getting another cheap shot.
While I agree with you that W10 doesn't commit a flagrant foul, I disagree he shoved to protect himself. B23 is walking away from him when he shoves him.

tjones1 Tue Feb 09, 2010 01:52pm
After another look I see what you are talking about JR... however, white #10 also took a fist full of black #23's jersey with his other hand.

While I agree that it was probably natural for white #10 to grab the arm closest to him, black #23 was turning and walking away. Then white #10 took a step and shoved him.

I certainly can't blame white #10 for doing what he did after he got jacked. But if I only had one look at it and I saw what white #10 did I would of had a flagrant technical.

Again, I think it'd be interesting to see what the Fed's ruling on this would be. I would have a hard time believing they would allow white #10 to stay in the game... but who knows.

CoachCER Tue Feb 09, 2010 01:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdw3018 (Post 660040)
While I agree with you that W10 doesn't commit a flagrant foul, I disagree he shoved to protect himself. B23 is walking away from him when he shoves him.

B23 still has his hand in W10's chect. I can see why W10 is going to push away the person who just jacked him the face if they still are making contact, whether W23 is walking away or not. Remember that this happened second after he was just jacked in the face with absolutely no provocation.

jdw3018 Tue Feb 09, 2010 02:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachCER (Post 660049)
B23 still has his hand in W10's chect. I can see why W10 is going to push away the person who just jacked him the face if they still are making contact, whether W23 is walking away or not. Remember that this happened second after he was just jacked in the face with absolutely no provocation.
I can see that point of view, but I simply disagree (after viewing the video). I don't blame W10 for reacting that way, but I've got a T here. I don't believe he did it solely for protection.

CoachCER Tue Feb 09, 2010 02:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdw3018 (Post 660060)
I can see that point of view, but I simply disagree (after viewing the video). I don't blame W10 for reacting that way, but I've got a T here. I don't believe he did it solely for protection.

A T I can see, someone else has a flagrant T and I struggle with that. As quick as it occurred, I see it as a mix of instinct and protection.

RookieDude Tue Feb 09, 2010 02:46pm
I haven't even seen the video...I am at work, and You Tube is blocked...but, I just have to give an opinion. (Mainly because I RARELY get to disagree with JR);)

The "Good Book" says "turn the other cheek"...I'm not really sure if the Rule Book has precedence...but, this White #10 doesn't sound like he "turned the other cheek".

White #10 got INVOLVED. (pushed back)

KISS...Keep It Simple Stupid...principals apply.

I don't want to have to make these minute decisions (was it a defensive push, or was it protection, or what was it?) after a big melay like this...just "KISS" and eject accordingly.

buckrog64 Tue Feb 09, 2010 05:13pm
You'd like to think a coach would tell his players, at the beginning of the season, if anything like this were to ever happen, that his bench players should stay put. What a mess to have to sort out. Glad it was someone else. Also, lots of and way too many fans who aren't sitting in the bleachers. These people need to find seats or get out of the gym. Not the responsibility of the officials, but it would make their jobs a little easier.

LocDog249 Tue Feb 09, 2010 05:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by derwil (Post 659754)
Area 6A 1st round - Birmingham, Alabama

Hoover (black) and Spain Park (white) are in town rivals:

YouTube - Spain Park vs. Hoover Basketball Fight

Sooooooo watcha got???

After the fiasco, the referees dumped the big kid for Hoover, 6 Hoover players off the bench, assesed the HC 6 indirect for the players leaving the bench and tossed him too. Hoover ended up with 5 players the rest of the game. The referees also let Spain park shoot 16.....yes 16 free throws - 2 for the original foul 2 for the flagrant on the big fella and 12 for the players on the court.

Now don't shoot the messenger.....that's what the crew did.

And YES I know the first foul isn't a charge...should have been team control or intentional.

Anyhow...just thought I'd share this wonderful moment in area basketball with the world.
I'm not sure if anyone said this already, but I find it scary that a playoff crew would award free throws on a team control foul. I realize they messed up with the handling of the fighting rule, but I would think they should at least realize that you don't shoot TC fouls.

Unless the calling official got info from one of his partners and determined that the original foul was intentional, then I have no problem with shooting 2 free throws for the original foul.

bas2456 Tue Feb 09, 2010 05:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjones1 (Post 660025)
I dunno... I guess I'll be the lone one here but I'm still getting rid of white #10.

After getting decked, he basically took a full step toward black #23 as he was walking away and shoved him in the back.

Again, just my take on the situation.
You're not crazy. I agree with you. Instincts and all, he did what he did, and what he did, to me, falls under 4-18-2. What he did clearly incited the original sucker-puncher to come back at him looking for more.

I'm running him.

Texas Aggie Tue Feb 09, 2010 09:01pm
Quote:
Coach wasn't beckoned on from what i can see in the video. He get's a Techincal foul.
In a fight in my game, as long as the coach is 1) a peacemaker and 2) handling his own players, we will deem him beckoned onto the court regardless of whether we actually told him prior to him coming on or not. I want the head coach out there to pull his kids away. Likewise, I want the assistants to handle the bench.

This can only help us out.

The biggest problem I see is that the officials did not have control of this game. There is NO FREAKIN' WAY I am letting the crowd linger on the sideline or baseline as they are doing here. If they have to come and go there, fine, but I insist that someone keep them moving.


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