Guys - does this help? I'm sure we would all agree that if B1 reached over the line while A1 was "dribbling" and fouled him, we would call it intentional. Should the same "reasoning" apply to the T for hitting the ball?

It doesn't mean you can't use the precedent to make a ruling on a play not specifically covered by the rules.

Here's how I have it in my mind:
reach through plane and no contact on thrower or ball-->DOG
reach through plane and hit ball, whether its in the throwers hand or not-->T and first DOG
reach through plane and hit thrower-->IF, and first DOG

Something seems amiss, fire away.

Except if A1 releases the ball on a throw-in pass; B1 then has no restrictions. 9-2-10

Maybe the definitive argument would be it's a T because it's really the same as if B1 reached across and hit a pass from A1 to A2, who were both OOB following a basket by team B. In that case, the ball isn't in A1's hands and if he's "dribbling", it's just as legal for him to do that as if he's passing OOB to A2.

This is what I was thinking.

Player control has nothing to do with this play.

The rule on this play makes no mention of player control.

Well Said. +1

For the age group however, I would use common sense and tell the player not to do that and if he were to do that in a JV or Varsity game, he would most likely get a Technical. At least if I was doing the game.

THere's a case play where A doesn't come out of a huddle after a TO. The official puts the ball on the floor. B crosses the line.

Ruling: B gets a DOG warning, and not a T, but only because A NEVER had the ball.

I read that as, if A EVER has the ball, then it's a T.

What he said ^^^^^^^^

He's a very smart guy.

Ignats' Motto
 

Watched a coupla middle school girls games tonight just for fun. At halftime one of our fine officials on the crew mentioned he was having to expend some effort to explain to the head coach why he couldn't grant her assistant's request for a timeout. I told him to tell the head coach, "Look, I'll listen to the organ grinder, but not the monkey."
Not an exact quote, but they were still laughing minutes later when administering the OOB to start the third quarter! :)
Thanx, Ignats.

No player control? So if the thrower requests a timeout because he's almost reached 5 seconds you're not going to grant it? If a player is dribbling the ball inbounds does he have player control?

The thrower had control/possession...the defender hit the ball before it was released on a pass...it is a technical foul, no warning. It's pretty cut and dry

Someone mentioned what if he lost the ball while dribbling and could the defender touch it then. If he lost the ball and it went out of the 6 ft space, I have a throw-in violation on the offense. [Does this kid have an elongated FT routine?] On the play described, it meets the definition of a T. Especially if the score was tied and it was near the end of regulation.

IMHO, correct call is a T. Whether he's holding, dribbling OB, or simply sets the ball on the floor OB is irrelevant to the defender's action. No need to overcomplicate it - by specific rule, the throw-in boundary violation restrictions on the defender don't end until the ball is released on the inbound pass.

Memories ...
 

Change Of Status just rolled over in his grave.