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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 24, 2010, 10:37pm
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Team gets to 10 fouls

Boys rec league. A1 fouls B1 (non-shooting foul). This is team A's 7th team foul. As I report foul to table, and indicate to table that it's a 1&1, I hear a whistle, P has called a T on A1. P moves toward table to report T, as I'm moving back toward F/T lane, A2 makes a wisea** remark about the T as he's pulling his jersey up over his face. Whack. I tee-up A2. I report T to table, P and I huddle to review in what order we're shooting each foul and how many shots we have....when A's HC steps out on the floor to to tell us what he thinks of us...Whack.
So the "dust settles" and now we have:
1) 10 team fouls on team A
Team B will shoot:
2) The non-shooting PF on A1(team's 7th)>>>What started as a 1&1 now
becomes a 2 shot foul as A
has reached 10 team fouls?

3) 3 techs= 6 shots
4) Division line throw-in opposite table for B after the completion of the 8 foul shots.

Am I correct about #2?
I could not find this specific sitch in book.
I mean it made sense to me at the time. A's HC asked about it, calmly, as he already had one T, and I answered his question without any hesitation and he accepted the answer. P was inexperienced (college student who just works rec games), so I couldn't bounce this off of him.
Did I screw anything up here in administrating all this?
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 24, 2010, 10:46pm
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The original (7th team foul) will still be shot as a one-and-one bonus situation. If the first free throw is missed, then precede with the free throws for the technical foul.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 24, 2010, 10:46pm
Never Stop Learning
 
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#2 is incorrect. All action in NFHS is in the order of occurrence. This still should be 1 and 1 with the lane lines cleared. Then the techs in the order they happened and a division line throw-in opposite the table for Team B.
#4 may be incorrect also in that the first foul shots are a 1 and 1 situation and if the first is missed there would only be 7 foul shots.
This could also be a correctable error situation if caught in the proper time frame.

Last edited by Ed Maeder; Sun Jan 24, 2010 at 10:51pm.
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Old Sun Jan 24, 2010, 10:46pm
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nfhs?

If you are using NFHS rules, you would be incorrect....

Penalties are enforced when they happen but shot out of order.

You would shoot the 6 FT's for the T's first. You can have six different shooters.

You would then have the one and one.

If he misses the first, throw in from division line opposite the table. Other wise shoot the second and then have the throw in.
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Old Sun Jan 24, 2010, 10:47pm
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No, you got #2 wrong. Since they should be penalized in the order they were called, the common foul remains the 7th. You don't shoot double bonus until the 10th foul, the 10th foul here was the T, the common foul was the 7th.

One and one, followed by the 6 T shots.

If a team racks up 3 Ts like this, I wouldn't lose any sleep about giving the opponent a double bonus instead of one and one.

Just to drive this home a bit; consider if the initial foul was the 6th (or 4th). That foul would get no free throws, and you would move immediately to the shots for the Ts.
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Old Sun Jan 24, 2010, 10:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbking View Post
If you are using NFHS rules, you would be incorrect....

Penalties are enforced when they happen but shot out of order.

You would shoot the 6 FT's for the T's first. You can have six different shooters.

You would then have the one and one.

If he misses the first, throw in from division line opposite the table. Other wise shoot the second and then have the throw in.
Wrong. Everything is shot in the order it was called. One and one first.
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Old Sun Jan 24, 2010, 10:49pm
APG APG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbking View Post
If you are using NFHS rules, you would be incorrect....

Penalties are enforced when they happen but shot out of order.

You would shoot the 6 FT's for the T's first. You can have six different shooters.

You would then have the one and one.

If he misses the first, throw in from division line opposite the table. Other wise shoot the second and then have the throw in.
Under NFHS rules, you shot free throws in the order of occurrence. Therefore you'll shoot the one and one and then continue with the technical free throws. Afterward, the ball will be at the division line for a throw-in.
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Old Mon Jan 25, 2010, 12:57am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KJUmp View Post
Boys rec league. A1 fouls B1 (non-shooting foul). This is team A's 7th team foul. As I report foul to table, and indicate to table that it's a 1&1, I hear a whistle, P has called a T on A1. P moves toward table to report T, as I'm moving back toward F/T lane, A2 makes a wisea** remark about the T as he's pulling his jersey up over his face. Whack. I tee-up A2. I report T to table, P and I huddle to review in what order we're shooting each foul and how many shots we have....when A's HC steps out on the floor to to tell us what he thinks of us...Whack.
So the "dust settles" and now we have:
1) 10 team fouls on team A
Team B will shoot:
2) The non-shooting PF on A1(team's 7th)>>>What started as a 1&1 now
becomes a 2 shot foul as A
has reached 10 team fouls?

3) 3 techs= 6 shots
4) Division line throw-in opposite table for B after the completion of the 8 foul shots.

Am I correct about #2?
I could not find this specific sitch in book.
I mean it made sense to me at the time. A's HC asked about it, calmly, as he already had one T, and I answered his question without any hesitation and he accepted the answer. P was inexperienced (college student who just works rec games), so I couldn't bounce this off of him.
Did I screw anything up here in administrating all this?
KJ, please understand that bonus FTs are awarded ONLY for common fouls. Other types of fouls (intentional, flagrant, technical, double, etc.) carry their own specific penalties. For NFHS you always administer the fouls in the order in which they occurred. So if the 7th team foul is a common foul, then the offended party (or required replacement) will receive the 1&1 no matter what else happens after that point.
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Old Mon Jan 25, 2010, 01:37am
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I want to know the rest of the story

--- ran the coach because he would not sit down
--- ran either player because they would not shut up

Of course the coach is going to blame you for the 10 point swing but hey they did it...
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Old Mon Jan 25, 2010, 05:44am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin green View Post
I want to know the rest of the story

--- ran the coach because he would not sit down
--- ran either player because they would not shut up

Of course the coach is going to blame you for the 10 point swing but hey they did it...
The rest of the story.....

There was no reason to "run" anyone. We called the T's, they all were good T's..(well deserved), no brainers. Team A took their medicine and we played on. No problems the rest of the game. Nada. None.
My young (not very experienced partner) and I did our jobs and took care of "stuff" that needed to be taken care of.

As stated in my OP...rec league. League rules had the A1&aA2 sitting the rest of the half because of the T's, and they're both suspended for the next game. Coach gets another T (or if this was his 2nd of the year), he gets a suspension. Again, local rec league rule.

I wished I had not messed up the part of making the original 1&1 a 2 shot foul because we has reached 10 fouls....but it was a sitch that I had never encountered on the floor or on a test. While I was the more experienced ref, this is only my 2nd year...so I still have a lot to learn.
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Old Mon Jan 25, 2010, 05:47am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
No, you got #2 wrong. Since they should be penalized in the order they were called, the common foul remains the 7th. You don't shoot double bonus until the 10th foul, the 10th foul here was the T, the common foul was the 7th.

One and one, followed by the 6 T shots.

If a team racks up 3 Ts like this, I wouldn't lose any sleep about giving the opponent a double bonus instead of one and one.

Just to drive this home a bit; consider if the initial foul was the 6th (or 4th). That foul would get no free throws, and you would move immediately to the shots for the Ts.


Ahhhh.....the light goes on!! Of course.....makes perfect sense.
Thanks Snags
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Old Mon Jan 25, 2010, 05:49am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KJUmp View Post
I wished I had not messed up the part of making the original 1&1 a 2 shot foul because we has reached 10 fouls....but it was a sitch that I had never encountered on the floor or on a test. While I was the more experienced ref, this is only my 2nd year...so I still have a lot to learn.
Look at the bright side. You'll never make that mistake again.
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Old Mon Jan 25, 2010, 05:54am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KJUmp View Post
Boys rec league. A1 fouls B1 (non-shooting foul). This is team A's 7th team foul. As I report foul to table, and indicate to table that it's a 1&1, I hear a whistle, P has called a T on A1. P moves toward table to report T, as I'm moving back toward F/T lane, A2 makes a wisea** remark about the T as he's pulling his jersey up over his face. Whack. I tee-up A2. I report T to table, P and I huddle to review in what order we're shooting each foul and how many shots we have....when A's HC steps out on the floor to to tell us what he thinks of us...Whack.
This kinda story sounds to me like you've been hanging around with Padgett too long!
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Old Mon Jan 25, 2010, 06:08am
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Thanks Nevada.

I had them shooting of the foul shots in the right order. B1 was the first shooter. Then B HC had B3 shoot all 3 T's.

As you & Snags pointed out, I "out thought" myself on making the original 1&1 a 2 shot foul. He made the 1st, missed the 2nd. Team A won big, not that it matters BTW, while my screw-up had no bearing on the result of the game...it's still screw-up. I DID NOT KNOW THE RULE.

What if this happened in a close game? Got to get these things right. Also, even though I'm a "newbie", I can't assume that I'll always be working with an experienced vet who i can lean on when a complicated sitch occurs in a game.
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Old Mon Jan 25, 2010, 06:14am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbking View Post
If you are using NFHS rules, you would be incorrect....

Penalties are enforced when they happen but shot out of order.

You would shoot the 6 FT's for the T's first. You can have six different shooters.

You would then have the one and one.

If he misses the first, throw in from division line opposite the table. Other wise shoot the second and then have the throw in.
Yes, NFHS rules.
Speaking of which, 8.6.2 tells me I've got to shoot them in the order in which they occur.
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