overtun a call, fumble

[mutantducky]

honest mistake but it was in my area, not really bad peep though. But I saw it clearly and it was when a player lost the ball and then picked up up and fumbled it. Partner called a double dribble. Anyone for stepping in and overturning? Not a close game. Or just talk about it during a stop. I'm thinking in a close game if this happens, do I want to go over and overturn the call or just let it go.

[Adam]

Let it go and assume he saw something you missed, assuming it's in his area and not yours. This isn't a play that needs to be chased down across the court.

[JRutledge]

If it clearly is not a violation for the reason you stated, I can live with you speaking up. If it is one of those judgment things, I might let it go and we will talk about it in the locker room. It would depend how much in my area the play was and how bad a call I felt it was. I have only gone to an official about a non-out of bound violation in my career and it was during a summer league game.

Peace

[Adam]

I see I missed that it was in your area. I don't have a big problem with this. I actually went to a newer official this year to correct a call, and I hate that I did it.

A1 with a spot throw-in on her front court end line. She launches it deep into the backcourt where A2 retrieves it. I'm lead, and partner (2 person) calls BC violation. I hesitate for a second, but end up hitting my whistle. I run over to her and we talk for a second before she agrees to go IW and give the ball back to A.

[stosh]

This past weekend, I was working with a guy in his 8th game and I saw a totally clean blocked shot, I mean no contact whatsoever, and lo and behold he comes in with a whistle and a fist up. It was obvious to everyone that there was no foul, so before he reported, I called him over to the side and told him what I had seen, and asked him to be honest, "was there any contact?" He was honest; I indicated "Inadvertant whistle" and we played the ball fromt the point of interuption. I hated "overuling" him, but I think it added to our credibility as a team.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by stosh

This past weekend, I was working with a guy in his 8th game and I saw a totally clean blocked shot, I mean no contact whatsoever, and lo and behold he comes in with a whistle and a fist up. It was obvious to everyone that there was no foul, so before he reported, I called him over to the side and told him what I had seen, and asked him to be honest, "was there any contact?" He was honest; I indicated "Inadvertant whistle" and we played the ball fromt the point of interuption. I hated "overuling" him, but I think it added to our credibility as a team.

Really? If I was a coach I'd be looking to you to overrule any call your partner made that I didn't like.

[Indianaref]

Originally Posted by stosh

This past weekend, I was working with a guy in his 8th game and I saw a totally clean blocked shot, I mean no contact whatsoever, and lo and behold he comes in with a whistle and a fist up. It was obvious to everyone that there was no foul, so before he reported, I called him over to the side and told him what I had seen, and asked him to be honest, "was there any contact?" He was honest; I indicated "Inadvertant whistle" and we played the ball fromt the point of interuption. I hated "overuling" him, but I think it added to our credibility as a team.

Credibility for who? Made you feel all puffed up. What about your partner? What about the coaches? Now coaches will expecting everything to be subject to correction. Maybe overrule on a violation but not a foul. Talk to your partner later about it.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Indianaref

Maybe overrule on a violation but not a foul.

Right, and the difference is that one involves incorrectly applying a rule (which is fixable), and the other involves mistaken judgment (which isn't).

[Bishopcolle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I see I missed that it was in your area. I don't have a big problem with this. I actually went to a newer official this year to correct a call, and I hate that I did it.

A1 with a spot throw-in on her front court end line. She launches it deep into the backcourt where A2 retrieves it. I'm lead, and partner (2 person) calls BC violation. I hesitate for a second, but end up hitting my whistle. I run over to her and we talk for a second before she agrees to go IW and give the ball back to A.

Got to step in with this one....If you don't correct this VERY basic rule...then you look bad, as well....got to correct it...good call.....

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Bishopcolle

Got to step in with this one....If you don't correct this VERY basic rule...then you look bad, as well....got to correct it...good call.....

I agree, which is why I did it. If the ball had landed in the FC first and there was any doubt about team control in the FC, I would have let it go.

She and I talked about it later, and said she wasn't sure at the time but had blown her whistle hoping I'd correct her if she was wrong. I honestly wasn't sure how to answer that one at the time.

[ditttoo]

So we're opening up "differences of opinions" in judgement calls all night long? Can instant replay be far behind? We've all missed judgement calls but unless you want to get into reviewing all calls/non-calls, live with what your partner calls. With rules application we need to "get it right" and by the book states that we can't set aside rules so I'm all in favor of getting together to "get it right". But with judgement who's to say where we draw the line? Yes, some "judgements" are better than others and some are waaay less than others - live with it! If your partner's comfortable in explaining to the coach why he had a whistle, let him gain the experience, if not, rotate him out away and move on!

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ditttoo

So we're opening up "differences of opinions" in judgement calls all night long? Can instant replay be far behind? We've all missed judgement calls but unless you want to get into reviewing all calls/non-calls, live with what your partner calls. With rules application we need to "get it right" and by the book states that we can't set aside rules so I'm all in favor of getting together to "get it right". But with judgement who's to say where we draw the line? Yes, some "judgements" are better than others and some are waaay less than others - live with it! If your partner's comfortable in explaining to the coach why he had a whistle, let him gain the experience, if not, rotate him out away and move on!

While I agree, it's not always as easy as you seem to make it.

Suppose your partner calls a personal foul, and you see that there's no contact at all. Do you go in becuase it's a rules issue or leave it because it's a judgment issue?

On the two plays presented here ("double dribble" and "BC"), I agree that they can often and should often be corrected, based on the information presented. But, it's not clear to me where (or at least how to explain where) to draw the line.

[Adam]

Bob hits it on the head (again) here. It's a tough line to find, let alone walk. Personally, I'd rather feel uncomfortable doing what I did than feel good about it; even though at the time (and even now) I felt it needed done.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by stosh

I hated "overuling" him, but I think it added to our credibility as a team.

I hate to pile on but imo you not only destroyed your credibility as a team but you also opened a Pandora's Box for coaches to question any/all of your team's judgment calls.

[referee99]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I see I missed that it was in your area. I don't have a big problem with this. I actually went to a newer official this year to correct a call, and I hate that I did it.

A1 with a spot throw-in on her front court end line. She launches it deep into the backcourt where A2 retrieves it. I'm lead, and partner (2 person) calls BC violation. I hesitate for a second, but end up hitting my whistle. I run over to her and we talk for a second before she agrees to go IW and give the ball back to A.

All things being equal, I'm doing exactly the same thing.