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-   Basketball (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/)
-   -   Defender counting out loud during inbound (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/56556-defender-counting-out-loud-during-inbound.html)

Raymond Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by twing1115 (Post 653280)
I've been many DI, DII, DIII college games and the better teams are always talking. Especially in traps. Why? All in an attempt to raise the anxiety level in your opponent. Just like anything in life when anxiety is high people panic and make poor decisions. We like to cause panic. Thats why teams that play us turn the ball over 21 times per game and average more than two 5sec. violations per game.
You actually think it's the yelling that's causing the turnovers? As a PLAYER, some idiot defender yelling "BLAH, BLAH, BLAH" at me made me laugh, not turn the ball over.

I'm quite sure good hands, quick feet, and discipline have more to do with the turnovers than "voice-induced panic", unless you are playing in a league where all your opponents lack mental toughness.

But back to the OP. I would tell your player directly on the spot to knock it off and then I would inform you, the coach. Continued counting would lead to a direct T to the perpertrator.

fiasco Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by twing1115 (Post 653296)
Saying I am a coach without a doubt brings negativity with some high strung refs.
It's not because you're a coach.

It's because you're a coach, who comes asking for clarification, then gets that clarification and not liking the answer, then saying that we, the officials, are being egotistic because you don't like our answer, then going even further and questioning our officiating knowledge even though you don't know a damn thing about us.

So, yes, there's some negativity here, but not because you're a coach. It's because you're a troll. Now be gone, troll.

mbyron Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:17pm
Last night I had a kid behind me in the stands who was counting aloud my silent 10-count during free throws. He was definitely watching my hand, and quietly counting each signal. Kinda odd.

Mark Padgett Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 653308)
You actually think it's the yelling that's causing the turnovers? As a PLAYER, some idiot defender yelling "BLAH, BLAH, BLAH" at me made me laugh, not turn the ball over.
How about girls always yelling "BALL BALL BALL BALL BALL" on every inbound play they're defending? That drives me nuts. When I know they're going to do it, before I hand the ball over to the inbounder, I tell the defender, "You don't have to yell BALL BALL BALL. We already know it's a ball." They yell it anyway.

TrojanHorse Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:29pm
Having been on both side, coaching and officiating, I can tell that here that coach, you missed the:D..You came to an officiating board to ask a question. You got an answer then you proceeded to defend your actions. That should be for a coaching board. You are not going to win an argument about officiating as a coach on a officials board.

I coach now and check this board out daily because its helpful and entertaining. I add now and then, and occasionally ask questions. But never am I going to argue about something as silly as "communicating" on the court when no one really cares. You made it a big deal out of nothing, so the sarcastic nature of officiating came out.

twing1115 Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:30pm
You would think that refs would want coaches to be more informed about rules coverage areas, ect. The more a coach knows the less he complains and if there is a dialog it can be an intelligent one. Believe me, I know how the business works being an Umpire. At meetings and post game watering holes some umps are so proud of tossing a coach, removing a fan, calling a strike to get the last out in order to get out of there. The old ump saying "When in doubt...out." Some guys just don't get it and like the stage.

bob jenkins Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by twing1115 (Post 653296)
I teach my players to play with sportsmanship

I'll accept that as true.

Then, since all (here) agree that the count is unsporting, I think you have to stop teaching it.

TrojanHorse Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Padgett (Post 653320)
How about girls always yelling "BALL BALL BALL BALL BALL" on every inbound play they're defending? That drives me nuts. When I know they're going to do it, before I hand the ball over to the inbounder, I tell the defender, "You don't have to yell BALL BALL BALL. We already know it's a ball." They yell it anyway.
That was custom at the school i took over for when i first started coaching girls. I knocked that off because I just did not want to hear it. Now with the boys..its just normal basketball talk with the yelling of "Dead Dead Dead" when the offensive player picks up his dribble

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by twing1115 (Post 653210)
Wow!!! Egos, egos, everywhere. I never said that I was right. I was
attempting to get a professional ruling. If it is in fact illegal I will stop, as I don't want to be assessed a T. With that said keep your coaching advice to yourself. A good official can have a productive dialog with a coach. My teams are known for talking the entire game. We play an aggressive full court game where we attemp to get our opponents to rush. We trap and are all over the court. We say "shot" everytime. We say "I've got ball." We say I've got help. In traps we yell "Bury, Bury, Bury." (If youve ever played the game you understand the difference between a silent trap and a loud trap). On rebounds we yell ball. We huddle at every opportunity and never talk to officials. This year my team has recieved two technicals. One for hanging on the rim..ref was correct. The other was reaching over the line twice (once touching the ball...this is bound to happen because we chart 5 second calls and average over two per game.


Coach:

No one has thrown his ego around in this thread yet, but now I will. JurRef as quoted chapter and verse for you and very accurately described why coaches have their players do what you have your players do. We officials are not stupid, we are far wiser about the horse manure some coaches try to throw on us in the name of gamemanship and then get mad when we correctly do our job and stop the nonsense you are trying to impose upon this great game.

MTD, Sr.

twing1115 Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:35pm
Quote:
Then, since all (here) agree that the count is unsporting, I think you have to stop teaching it.
AS I stated earlier, after having a respectful conversation with the ref I had no problem telling my guys to stop.

fullor30 Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:39pm
Sounds like a total team effort with the vocal approach.

You probably already do this, get your bench in unison to give the wrong countdown when your opponent is in a last second shot situation. You know, 5,4,3,2,1 when there is really ten seconds or so left.

Here's another one, keep pulling your opponents jersey out when the officials aren't looking, and maybe they'll be asked to leave the game. I have a ton of 'em, but you probably already use these and ones I've never heard of.

I'll say this, if you were my son's coach and I heard this practice, you'd be down one player.

Your countdown besides being illegal, is unethical.

Adam Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by twing1115 (Post 653327)
You would think that refs would want coaches to be more informed about rules coverage areas, ect. The more a coach knows the less he complains and if there is a dialog it can be an intelligent one. Believe me, I know how the business works being an Umpire. At meetings and post game watering holes some umps are so proud of tossing a coach, removing a fan, calling a strike to get the last out in order to get out of there. The old ump saying "When in doubt...out." Some guys just don't get it and like the stage.
This entire post is a non sequitur, coach. Additionally, adding the gratuitous shot at basketball officials because of your limited experience with baseball is counter-productive.

TrojanHorse Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fullor30 (Post 653336)
Sounds like a total team effort with the vocal approach.

You probably already do this, get your bench in unison to give the wrong countdown when your opponent is in a last second shot situation. You know, 5,4,3,2,1 when there is really ten seconds or so left.

Here's another one, keep pulling your opponents jersey out when the officials aren't looking, and maybe they'll be asked to leave the game. I have a ton of 'em, but you probably already use these and ones I've never heard of.

I'll say this, if you were my son's coach and I heard this practice, you'd be down one player.

Your countdown besides being illegal, is unethical.
You forgot tugging at an opponents shorts when at the free throwline

twing1115 Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:45pm
Quote:
JurRef as quoted chapter and verse for you and very accurately described why coaches have their players do what you have your players do. We officials are not stupid, we are far wiser about the horse manure some coaches try to throw on us in the name of gamemanship and then get mad when we correctly do our job and stop the nonsense you are trying to impose upon this great game.
There you go...throw your weight around. Give me a break. It's funny how short some guys get when the "opposition" asks a question. Yes JurRef gave me an explanation and I am certainly thankful for it. Perhaps I missed a bit of playful sarcasm when he said Bad, Bad, ref.:D So JurRef: Thank you. But I shouldn't feel like a shark in the water when I'm simply asking a simple question in order to become more knowledgable.

Adam Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:47pm
I think it might be time to hijack the thread.

How 'bout them Red Sox!


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