need advice

[representing]

Today, in a highly intense Girls JV game, I was trail. Ball is right in front of me and all of the sudden it becomes loose, on its way going out of bounds. Two girls, both of opposite teams, reaches for the ball and I swear it was nearly simultaneously touched and goes out of bounds. I take a second to think about it and I say "simultaneously touched, jump ball" and the crowd goes wild. My partner, who shouldn't have even been looking at this play, comes over and says "I saw white touched it last, it is red's ball". Now I just looked like an idiot and says "Red's ball" and gives it to red, even though if I would have gone to the arrow it would have been white's ball.

The angle I was with it coming to me, it definitely looked like a simultaneous touch, while my partner and a few friends of mine in the stands said from their angle you could definitely see white touched it last. Any advice on how to avoid this situation? Let it be known that it was with about 10-15 seconds left and White was leading by 2 points at this exact moment.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by representing

Today, in a highly intense Girls JV game, I was trail. Ball is right in front of me and all of the sudden it becomes loose, on its way going out of bounds. Two girls, both of opposite teams, reaches for the ball and I swear it was nearly simultaneously touched and goes out of bounds. I take a second to think about it and I say "simultaneously touched, jump ball" and the crowd goes wild. My partner, who shouldn't have even been looking at this play, comes over and says "I saw white touched it last, it is red's ball". Now I just looked like an idiot and says "Red's ball" and gives it to red, even though if I would have gone to the arrow it would have been white's ball.

The angle I was with it coming to me, it definitely looked like a simultaneous touch, while my partner and a few friends of mine in the stands said from their angle you could definitely see white touched it last. Any advice on how to avoid this situation? Let it be known that it was with about 10-15 seconds left and White was leading by 2 points at this exact moment.

You made a wrong call. Your partner provided information which allowed you to correct yourself and make the right call. From the OP it sounds like the problem is how he provided the information. He shouldn't have said anything loud enough for others to hear. He tells you what he saw, and if it convinces you, you have the authority to change your call.

Bottom line. Your call. He has no authority to change it.

[representing]

Originally Posted by just another ref

You made a wrong call. Your partner provided information which allowed you to correct yourself and make the right call. From the OP it sounds like the problem is how he provided the information. He shouldn't have said anything loud enough for others to hear. He tells you what he saw, and if it convinces you, you have the authority to change your call.

Bottom line. Your call. He has no authority to change it.

he actually came over to me while the fans and coach were protesting, and told me. He didn't make it loud enough to be heard by everyone, but maybe the local 2 or 3 players standing around.

But in the end, I did feel like an idiot that maybe I did get the call wrong. From my angle, it definitely looked like a simultaneous touch. 50/50, I'm glad he came over to tell me what happened, but the other 50 I think he should've known he wasn't supposed to be looking there and let me there to get crucified. If coaches protested I would have went over and say "hey, from my angle it was a simultaneous touch and the ruling stands, end of discussion" and walk away.

[bbcoach7]

but for what it's worth, if this exact call had gone against me, I'd have felt like I had to just accept it if the other referee was adamant he saw it clearly.

I understand there is issues of whose primary it is, but whatever. I'd just look at it logically, and the other referee would have no reason to do that unless he was damn well sure what he'd seen. Tough break, accept it, move on is how I'd feel about it as a coach.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by representing

he actually came over to me while the fans and coach were protesting, and told me. He didn't make it loud enough to be heard by everyone, but maybe the local 2 or 3 players standing around.

But in the end, I did feel like an idiot that maybe I did get the call wrong. From my angle, it definitely looked like a simultaneous touch. 50/50, I'm glad he came over to tell me what happened, but the other 50 I think he should've known he wasn't supposed to be looking there and let me there to get crucified. If coaches protested I would have went over and say "hey, from my angle it was a simultaneous touch and the ruling stands, end of discussion" and walk away.

From the OP, I thought he had muscled you out of the call. Where your partner should or should not have been looking is for another thread. He told you what he saw, and apparently was certain of it. You trusted your partner enough to change the call. Nothing wrong with that.

[representing]

Originally Posted by just another ref

From the OP, I thought he had muscled you out of the call. Where your partner should or should not have been looking is for another thread. He told you what he saw, and apparently was certain of it. You trusted your partner enough to change the call. Nothing wrong with that.

The thing is though... I still feel like an idiot, and the HC of the Varsity team of the school that lost texted a buddy of mine prior to meeting him at the bar to say "he might be good for lower level game". This is a highly respectable coach in this league and I took big offense of that comment when I know that was the only f*ck I had the whole game. I referee'd a good game and for him to say that I would never do a varsity game just made me furious.

My main problem is how some of the current varsity officials, who I know are bullsh*t officials, actually get preferred by some coaches when I've been told that I am better than them. Officiating is yet another profession that has become too political, that you have to kiss @$$ to move up. I'm not that type and I may be hanging up my whistle soon just for that reason. I kiss no one's A$$ just to move forward.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by representing

The thing is though... I still feel like an idiot, and the HC of the Varsity team of the school that lost texted a buddy of mine prior to meeting him at the bar to say "he might be good for lower level game". This is a highly respectable coach in this league and I took big offense of that comment when I know that was the only f*ck I had the whole game. I referee'd a good game and for him to say that I would never do a varsity game just made me furious.

This is probably the key to the whole thing.

[representing]

Originally Posted by just another ref

This is probably the key to the whole thing.

Please emphasize what you mean. That team was the one that ended up getting the ball when it should have been given to the other team that had the AP, had I gone with that instead.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by representing

Please emphasize what you mean. That team was the one that ended up getting the ball when it should have been given to the other team that had the AP, had I gone with that instead.

I mean the team that loses frequently blames the officials, whether it is in any way justified or not.

[representing]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I mean the team that loses frequently blames the officials, whether it is in any way justified or not.

Gotcha.

This just goes back to what I said, I think last week, about the bogus scratched list.

Example: Close game, 10 seconds left, Team A down by one point. You call a foul on Team A that any decent or better official would have called, double bonus, Team B shoots and makes both FT. Team A now down by 3 points, and cannot make a 3-pointer at the buzzer. Of course that coach is going to try to to blame YOU, saying that was a bogus or bad foul, and end up scratching you. Coaches here are told that they can't scratch you because of situations like that, but who's gonna know why a coach scratched you? DO AWAY WITH THE F*CKING SCRATCH LIST, PLEASE!

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by representing

Coaches here are told that they can't scratch you because of situations like that, but who's gonna know why a coach scratched you?

What is considered a legitimate reason to be scratched?

[representing]

Originally Posted by just another ref

What is considered a legitimate reason to be scratched?

I would assume something like a coach thinking the referee is too lazy, doesn't care, doesn't know the rules, etc.

What I'm saying is like, in a situation I had two years ago, I got scratched by a state-champion coach for a no-call in my area that my partner called, during a JV, summer-league scrimmage, and he scratched ME. My partner was a new guy that season, and we were running 3-man as a "practice" run so we could all learn it. The coach was just standing in the corner watching this, and that was NOT me that f*cked up, but my partner. He's in the cornet yelling "that's not a back court!!!" and I looked at him and said "he's a new guy, I'll explain it to him at the next break" but I guess he wasn't having any of it and thought I should have overturned him at that moment.

Let me remind you, this was JV, in the summer, a MOTHERF*CKING< GOD-D*MN SCRIMMAGE! Again, SUMMER where no one gives a f*ck! I was wrongfully scratched from that game and could never get back on his good side since he's such an arrogant B*STARD.

BTW, it was his JV team that was the home team tonight and won. I tried to talk to him after the game but he just walked right by me after we shook hands. I guess the handshake is a good start. Found out he doesn't have an email address, so should I call him at his listed phone number to talk to him? Just looking for advice, which is a little OT from the OP.

[Nevadaref]

It seems that our young friend "representing" has some anger issues to deal with before he is ready to move up to the varsity level.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by representing

he actually came over to me while the fans and coach were protesting, and told me. He didn't make it loud enough to be heard by everyone, but maybe the local 2 or 3 players standing around.

But in the end, I did feel like an idiot that maybe I did get the call wrong. From my angle, it definitely looked like a simultaneous touch. 50/50, I'm glad he came over to tell me what happened, but the other 50 I think he should've known he wasn't supposed to be looking there and let me there to get crucified. If coaches protested I would have went over and say "hey, from my angle it was a simultaneous touch and the ruling stands, end of discussion" and walk away.

A few questions.

1. Did you partner come over in a confident manner?

2. Were you too close to the play? (depth wise)

3. Were you on top (looking down) or bottom (down looking up) on play

These MAY be a few things to take into consideration.


I believe, just my opinion, that slight hesitation displayed a little uncertainty on your behalf.

See, sale, and move on. Especially, a call that close... like the one you describe....

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by truerookie

I believe, just my opinion, that slight hesitation displayed a little uncertainty on your behalf.

I think you may be right. It should go without saying, shouldn't it, that if indeed he was uncertain he could have made eye contact with his partner for possible help before signaling direction.