Step on Line -- Legal or Illegal?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

1) I couldn't find 9-1-7, but while looking for it, I came up with this:

2) 9-1-3-e: The free thrower shall not have either foot beyond the vertical plane of the edge of the free-throw line which is farther from the basket or the freethrow semicircle line.

The free thrower shall not have either foot beyond the vertical plane of the freethrow semicircle line.

Which edge?

1) Changed-used handy old rule book for cite instead of latest one. Handy old rulebook has now been thrown back into the drawer from whence it came.

2) If you take out the part in red which refers to one situation, it leaves the other situation of the two detailed in 9-1-3e(as written right below that in blue). Note that in the red-highlighted situation, they say that the FT shooter can't step on the closest edge of the FT line to him/her. It stands to reason that they also meant that the same criteria should apply to the semicircle line as the free throw line-i.e. the FT shooter can't step on the closest edge of the semicircle line to him. And afaik, that's the way it has always been interpreted and called.

[Juulie Downs]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

It's not. The FT must be attempted from WITHIN the semi-circle. Now consider exactly what constitutes the mathematical line of the semi-circle? It's the outermost edge, right? That's what it says on the court diagram in the front of the rules book. So the whole of the curved line marking this on the floor lies within the FT semi-circle.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Note that in the red-highlighted situation, they say that the FT shooter can't step on the closest edge of the FT line to him/her. It stands to reason that they also meant that the same criteria should apply to the semicircle line as the free throw line-i.e. the FT shooter can't step on the closest edge of the semicircle line to him. And afaik, that's the way it has always been interpreted and called.

So are you saying that Nevada is wrong when he says shooter CAN step on semi-circle line? I mean, are you saying it's ILLEGAL to step on the semi-circle line? I'm so confused...

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Juulie Downs

I mean, are you saying it's ILLEGAL to step on the semi-circle line?

Yes.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Juulie Downs

So are you saying that Nevada is wrong

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Yes.

Nevaderef is wrong? Let me look out the window. No, I don't see any pigs flying by.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Nevaderef is wrong? Let me look out the window. No, I don't see any pigs flying by.

[Nevadaref]

9-1-3-e: The free thrower shall not have either foot beyond the vertical plane of the edge of the free-throw line which is farther from the basket or the freethrow semicircle line.

The key for me is the word "beyond." Standing ON the semicircle is not placing a foot beyond it. The rule clearly states that for the FT line the farther edge from the basket is the edge which a foot may not be beyond.

JR and I disagree about which edge of the 2" wide FT semicircle restricts the thrower. I believe that it is the same edge which restricts the players not in marked lane spaces along the FT lane. So the thrower gets the arc, but the players outside of the 3pt area do not. The latter is point which JR mentions. Note what is the mathematical line of demarcation here. It is the outermost edge or the arc. There is no neutral zone between the FT shooter and the players outside of the 3pt area provided for in the rules.

Also, if one consults the court diagram in the front of the rules book, one can see that the apex of the 3pt arc is exactly 25 feet from the end line and has a radius of six feet as measured from a point at the center of the FT line which is farther from the end line. The farther edge of FT line is 19 feet from the end line and 15 feet from the plane of the backboard.

In order to give the FT shooter his full six feet of space one has to give him the arc. To not do so would be to only allow him five feet and ten inches of vertical depth.

[bob jenkins]

I think there are some courts where the entire semicircle is one color -- and it extends to the three point arc.

So, similar to the OOB "line" being one color all the way to the wall, I think the shooter can stand on the semi-circle line.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I think there are some courts where the entire semicircle is one color -- and it extends to the three point arc.

So, similar to the OOB "line" being one color all the way to the wall, I think the shooter can stand on the semi-circle line.

Great point, Bob.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

In order to give the FT shooter his full six feet of space one has to give him the arc. To not do so would be to only allow him five feet and ten inches of vertical depth.

Where does anything say he is entitled to six feet?

And why would he possibly need it?

And has anyone ever seen this violation?

And if so, I bet a million dollars the shooter stepped over the line anyway, not just on it, so it really doesn't matter.

[Camron Rust]

The semi-circle is defined as being a 6-foot radius....not a 5'10" radius as would be measured if you measured to the inside edge of what is painted on most floors. The thickness of the semi-circle marking is entirely within the semi-circle....just as the FT lane lines are within the lane. The FT line is also within the lane. It is the outside edge of all the lane-related stripes that define the respective areas. The FT shooter can step on the semi-circle but not outside of it.

And as Bob said, sometimes the entire semi-circle is painted. For those that assert that the line is outside of the legal area for the free thrower, where will the free thrower stand?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

9-1-3-e: The free thrower shall not have either foot beyond the vertical plane of the edge of the free-throw line which is farther from the basket

JR and I disagree about which edge of the 2" wide FT semicircle restricts the thrower.

As written above, from this part of the rule the FT shooter can't legally step on the FT line. To my thinking, to be consistent rules-wise the same logic should also apply to the other boundary lines(if present) surrounding the FT shooter.

There is a gray(grey?) area imo. However, in real life I have seen FT shooters step on the free-throw line but I have never seen or heard of a FT shooter being called for just stepping on the semicircle line. Soooooo, I don't think it's really a biggie, one way or another.

And also note that if Nevada wants to declare himself the winner and do a victory lap, that's OK with me too. I'd still disagree with him but it's always fun to watch.

[Juulie Downs]

Okay, after chewing on this for a while, here's how it comes down for me.

All straight lines are parts of the areas they define. All curved lines aren't.

However, if we call the 19-foot arc a 2-point line, instead of a 3-point line...

All lines except the semi-circle line are parts of the areas they define.

But if the arc is as above AND if Nevada's right about the semi-circle and its line...

All lines are parts of the areas we define.

We're really getting somewhere! (In case anyone cares!)