Step on Line -- Legal or Illegal?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

If a player is touching a lane line, the player is within the FT lane.
If a player is touching the 3pt arc, the player is inside the 3pt area.
If a player is touching the division line that player is within the backcourt.
Touching the FT semi-circle puts the player within the area allowed for the free-thrower.

Perhaps someone can phrase it more smoothly in a single sentence, but that is the gist of it.

From the time that the ball is at the disposal of a free-thrower until the free throw restrictions end, no player may legally step on the the 3-point line or on any line within the 3-point line.

I think that defines all free throw violations concerning the lines.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Juulie Downs

I thought the semi-circle was also illegal for the shooter to step on.

Of course not, Larry bird did it over 5000 times and was never called for a single violation. But, of course, he was Larry Bird.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Now consider exactly what constitutes the mathematical line of the semi-circle? It's the outermost edge, right?

Nevaderef: Are you 100% sure about this? I would never call it a violation in a "real" game if the free throw shooter momentarily placed the back of his hell on, but not over, the semicircle, but, in theory, I would like to know the correct interpretation in case this ever shows up on an IAABO refresher exam. These refresher exams are known for to have weird situations, and picky questions.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Nevaderef: Are you 100% sure about this? I would never call it a violation in a "real" game if the free throw shooter momentarily placed the back of his hell on, but not over, the semicircle, but, in theory, I would like to know the correct interpretation in case this ever shows up on an IAABO refresher exam. These refresher exams are known for to have weird situations, and picky questions.

NFHS rule 9-1-3(e).

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

NFHS rule 9-1-7.

Jurassic Referee: Thanks. I couldn't find 9-1-7, but while looking for it, I came up with this:

9-1-3-e: The free thrower shall not have either foot beyond the vertical plane of the edge of the free-throw line which is farther from the basket or the freethrow semicircle line.

The free thrower shall not have either foot beyond the vertical plane of the edge the freethrow semicircle line. Which edge? I've always treated it like a boundary line, the "inner" edge being "out". Nevaderef, I believe, says to use the "outer" edge in regard to this rule.

Which edge? And again, this is only for theoretical purposes.

[representing]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Some courts don't have lines, they have merely a paint color change. Others have lines that are 6 feet deep. Thoughts?

Players can stand on the 3 feet deep "lines". Where the line ends and the court starts, the FINE LINE that separates it, that's where the player cannot step over. on a standard 3 inch line they are allowed to step on the line. The line makes them out of bounds if they were dribbling the ball on the court, so it still has them out of bounds if stepped on during a throw-in. Makes better sense?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

1) I couldn't find 9-1-7, but while looking for it, I came up with this:

2) 9-1-3-e: The free thrower shall not have either foot beyond the vertical plane of the edge of the free-throw line which is farther from the basket or the freethrow semicircle line.

The free thrower shall not have either foot beyond the vertical plane of the freethrow semicircle line.

Which edge?

1) Changed-used handy old rule book for cite instead of latest one. Handy old rulebook has now been thrown back into the drawer from whence it came.

2) If you take out the part in red which refers to one situation, it leaves the other situation of the two detailed in 9-1-3e(as written right below that in blue). Note that in the red-highlighted situation, they say that the FT shooter can't step on the closest edge of the FT line to him/her. It stands to reason that they also meant that the same criteria should apply to the semicircle line as the free throw line-i.e. the FT shooter can't step on the closest edge of the semicircle line to him. And afaik, that's the way it has always been interpreted and called.

[Juulie Downs]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

It's not. The FT must be attempted from WITHIN the semi-circle. Now consider exactly what constitutes the mathematical line of the semi-circle? It's the outermost edge, right? That's what it says on the court diagram in the front of the rules book. So the whole of the curved line marking this on the floor lies within the FT semi-circle.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Note that in the red-highlighted situation, they say that the FT shooter can't step on the closest edge of the FT line to him/her. It stands to reason that they also meant that the same criteria should apply to the semicircle line as the free throw line-i.e. the FT shooter can't step on the closest edge of the semicircle line to him. And afaik, that's the way it has always been interpreted and called.

So are you saying that Nevada is wrong when he says shooter CAN step on semi-circle line? I mean, are you saying it's ILLEGAL to step on the semi-circle line? I'm so confused...

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Juulie Downs

I mean, are you saying it's ILLEGAL to step on the semi-circle line?

Yes.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Juulie Downs

So are you saying that Nevada is wrong

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Yes.

Nevaderef is wrong? Let me look out the window. No, I don't see any pigs flying by.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Nevaderef is wrong? Let me look out the window. No, I don't see any pigs flying by.

[Nevadaref]

9-1-3-e: The free thrower shall not have either foot beyond the vertical plane of the edge of the free-throw line which is farther from the basket or the freethrow semicircle line.

The key for me is the word "beyond." Standing ON the semicircle is not placing a foot beyond it. The rule clearly states that for the FT line the farther edge from the basket is the edge which a foot may not be beyond.

JR and I disagree about which edge of the 2" wide FT semicircle restricts the thrower. I believe that it is the same edge which restricts the players not in marked lane spaces along the FT lane. So the thrower gets the arc, but the players outside of the 3pt area do not. The latter is point which JR mentions. Note what is the mathematical line of demarcation here. It is the outermost edge or the arc. There is no neutral zone between the FT shooter and the players outside of the 3pt area provided for in the rules.

Also, if one consults the court diagram in the front of the rules book, one can see that the apex of the 3pt arc is exactly 25 feet from the end line and has a radius of six feet as measured from a point at the center of the FT line which is farther from the end line. The farther edge of FT line is 19 feet from the end line and 15 feet from the plane of the backboard.

In order to give the FT shooter his full six feet of space one has to give him the arc. To not do so would be to only allow him five feet and ten inches of vertical depth.

[bob jenkins]

I think there are some courts where the entire semicircle is one color -- and it extends to the three point arc.

So, similar to the OOB "line" being one color all the way to the wall, I think the shooter can stand on the semi-circle line.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I think there are some courts where the entire semicircle is one color -- and it extends to the three point arc.

So, similar to the OOB "line" being one color all the way to the wall, I think the shooter can stand on the semi-circle line.

Great point, Bob.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

In order to give the FT shooter his full six feet of space one has to give him the arc. To not do so would be to only allow him five feet and ten inches of vertical depth.

Where does anything say he is entitled to six feet?

And why would he possibly need it?

And has anyone ever seen this violation?

And if so, I bet a million dollars the shooter stepped over the line anyway, not just on it, so it really doesn't matter.