Newer Posters: You make the call!

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

There are restrictions, can you tell me what they are?

Well as I'm reading & understanding 8-3 an eligible substitute, a currently active player, or designated starter.

So if a player started the game on the court then they can shoot the FTs, correct?

Or is this just limited to the current active players or those waiting at the table before the T happened?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Well as I'm reading & understanding 8-3 an eligible substitute, a currently active player, or designated starter.

So if a player started the game on the court then they can shoot the FTs, correct?

Or is this just limited to the current active players or those waiting at the table before the T happened?

Designated starters is really only an issue at the beginning of the game, before anyone becomes an active player.

Current players is self-explanatory.

The key to the final group is the word "eligible," this should help you figure out what the restrictions are.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Designated starters is really only an issue at the beginning of the game, before anyone becomes an active player.

Current players is self-explanatory.

The key to the final group is the word "eligible," this should help you figure out what the restrictions are.

If I am reading & understanding the wording of the case play for 8-3 (as stated below) correctly, any player can come in to shoot the FTs as long as they have not fouled out or been DQ'd. However they cannot be subbed for until the clock has properly started. (The case play lists a start of game sitch, not a middle of game sitch)

8.3 SITUATION: A technical foul is issued prior to the start of the game & the game begins with free throws. Non-starter, A6, is brought in to the game to attempt the free throws & replaces starter A5.

RULING: Legal substitute. The ball becomes live to start the game when placed at A6’s disposal. A6 & A5 are subject to proper substitution rules. A5 may not re-enter until the next opportunity to substitute after the clock has been properly started. (3-2-2a; 3-3-4)

[tjones1]

This situation happened following a time-out. The ball became live; however, the clock never started.

Does this matter?

Something to think about...

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by tjones1

This situation happened following a time-out. The ball became live; however, the clock never started.

Does this matter?

Something to think about...

Did the subs report to the scorer before the warning horn?

Also was the time-out between FT attempts?

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Did the subs report to the scorer before the warning horn?

Also was the time-out between FT attempts?

Re-read the OP.

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by tjones1

This situation happened following a time-out. The ball became live; however, the clock never started.

Does this matter?

Something to think about...

Well, I was doing both. It matters that the ball became live and then dead but it doesn't matter for this situation that the clock never started.

Every person that Team A's coach wants to shoot the free throw can.


Side note: As I said, this situation tripped me up. For some DA reason, I came up with the idea that following a time-out a tick must come off before subs can enter. Obviously, I was able to come up with a situation or two that proved this wrong and brought me to my senses...with the help of Illini_Ref. Anyways, I deserve a good slap on the back of the head for being a silly monkey for a couple hours today.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by chseagle

However they cannot be subbed for until the clock has properly started.

Any player can be "subbed for" at any time. However, a player who has already been "subbed for" cannot re-enter the game until after time the clock has started.

A6 could sub in for A5 to shoot the first FT. Now A5 must wait until the clock has started to re-enter.

Then A7 could sub for A6 to shoot the second FT. Now A5 and A6 must wait for the clock to start to re-enter.

Then A8 could sub for A7 after the second FT. Now A5, A6, and A7 must wait for the clock to start before re-entering.

[Adam]

Okay, I've dragged this on long enough. You're very close. I'm going to change the OP slightly.
First half, shooting foul called on B1, putting A1 at the line for two shots. It's B1's third, so coach sends a sub to the table. After the first shot, B6 comes in for B1. After B1 gets to the bench, A1 turns and taunts him. Official calls a T.

A) Coach wants to sub B1 back in to shoot the free throws for the T, since he's the best shooter. He then wants to take him out before the throw-in in order to prevent the fourth foul. Is this allowed?

B) Coach wants to put B7 in to shoot the free throws for the T, since he's the best shooter. He then wants to take him out before the throw-in because he's not really that great a player other than shooting free throws. Is this allowed?

[Illini_Ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Okay, I've dragged this on long enough. You're very close. I'm going to change the OP slightly.
First half, shooting foul called on B1, putting A1 at the line for two shots. It's B1's third, so coach sends a sub to the table. After the first shot, B6 comes in for B1. After B1 gets to the bench, A1 turns and taunts him. Official calls a T.

A) Coach wants to sub B1 back in to shoot the free throws for the T, since he's the best shooter. He then wants to take him out before the throw-in in order to prevent the fourth foul. Is this allowed?

B) Coach wants to put B7 in to shoot the free throws for the T, since he's the best shooter. He then wants to take him out before the throw-in because he's not really that great a player other than shooting free throws. Is this allowed?

A) Not allowed. B1 cannot entered until the next opportunity to sub after the clock has legally ran.

B) Legal as long as he isn't replaced by B1 or whomever B7 came in for.

My question is this. Say a sub reports after the warning horn during a time-out AND he is not a player that was subbed for since the clock was stopped prior to the time-out. Let's say he hasn't even been in the game yet.

The sub is not allowed to enter. The ball is handed to the thrower and before the ball is inbounded a foul is called on B1.

Can the sub at the table enter at this time? I say yes. I think that the clock running only applies to someone who is subbed for and wishes to re-enter.

Am I correct?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Illini_Ref

My question is this. Say a sub reports after the warning horn during a time-out AND he is not a player that was subbed for since the clock was stopped prior to the time-out. Let's say he hasn't even been in the game yet.

The sub is not allowed to enter. The ball is handed to the thrower and before the ball is inbounded a foul is called on B1.

Can the sub at the table enter at this time? I say yes. I think that the clock running only applies to someone who is subbed for and wishes to re-enter.

Am I correct?

Yes, you are correct. The rule is that player must wait until the next opportunity to sub; that opportunity comes, in this case, with the foul.

[Adam]

Here's one from my game last night.

A6 reports to the table during play. The next opportunity for her to come in happens to be a shooting foul. The coach requests a timeout as the official is reporting the foul.

When can this sub enter?

[Amesman]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Okay, I've dragged this on long enough. You're very close. I'm going to change the OP slightly.
First half, shooting foul called on B1, putting A1 at the line for two shots. It's B1's third, so coach sends a sub to the table. After the first shot, B6 comes in for B1. After B1 gets to the bench, A1 turns and taunts him. Official calls a T.

A) Coach wants to sub B1 back in to shoot the free throws for the T, since he's the best shooter. He then wants to take him out before the throw-in in order to prevent the fourth foul. Is this allowed?

B) Coach wants to put B7 in to shoot the free throws for the T, since he's the best shooter. He then wants to take him out before the throw-in because he's not really that great a player other than shooting free throws. Is this allowed?

In the spirit of what's going on here, have tried to find citations in either rules or case book but haven't been successful. But seems I remember this discussion coming up before, at least in part.

A) So I don't have a citation, but I'm gonna say since B1 was subbed for in this sequence, he is not an eligible sub (until a tick comes off the clock), so, no, this isn't allowed.

B) Yes, if B7 was simply on the bench (or otherwise eligible), he can shoot the Tech FTs and be subbed for. Rules say you have to sit for at least a tick, not necessarily play for a tick.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Amesman

In the spirit of what's going on here, have tried to find citations in either rules or case book but haven't been successful. But seems I remember this discussion coming up before, at least in part.

A) So I don't have a citation, but I'm gonna say since B1 was subbed for in this sequence, he is not an eligible sub (until a tick comes off the clock), so, no, this isn't allowed.

B) Yes, if B7 was simply on the bench (or otherwise eligible), he can shoot the Tech FTs and be subbed for. Rules say you have to sit for at least a tick, not necessarily play for a tick.

Yep

[grunewar]

A15 on his way to the table stopped to tie his shoes, would you pause the game and allow him to do that before you waived him in to shoot free throws.....

oops, sorry, wrong thread......