Wild Throw-in vs. Pressure

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

On a "run the endline" throwin, can A1 throw a bounce pass to A2, both whom are out of bounds? Is the ball touching the floor out of bounds on such a bounce pass (not a dribble, which is legal on all throwins) the same as the ball touching a wall on such a pass out of bounds?

True...

However, 9.2.2 Situation D states a player may bounce the ball on the floor on the out-of-bounds area prior to making a throw-in.

The wall is not on the floor.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by tjones1

True...

However, 9.2.2 Situation D states a player may bounce the ball on the floor on the out-of-bounds area prior to making a throw-in.

The wall is not on the floor.

They're both out of bounds. As long as the ball's always out of bounds until the actual throw-in and the defense doesn't commit a 5-second violation, who cares what it hits?

If the ball goes from the wall to the court, it's a violation. No argument there.

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

They're both out of bounds. As long as the ball's always out of bounds until the actual throw-in and the defense doesn't commit a 5-second violation, who cares what it hits?

If the ball goes from the wall to the court, it's a violation. No argument there.

I see what you're saying...but if it didn't matter why would the Fed say "A1 dribbles the ball on the floor on the out-of-bounds area" ... why wouldn't they just say A1 dribbles the ball on an out-of-bounds area?

[BillyMac]

Does the NFHS have a donut hole in this specific situation? Is there no specific rule or casebook situation to cover a "run the endline" throwin where A1 throws a bounce pass to A2, where A1, A2, and the place where the bounce pass hits (the wall) are all out of bounds?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by tjones1

I see what you're saying...but if it didn't matter why would the Fed say "A1 dribbles the ball on the floor on the out-of-bounds area" ... why wouldn't they just say A1 dribbles the ball on an out-of-bounds area?

Because it's illegal for him to bounce the ball on the floor on the inbounds area.

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Because it's illegal for him to bounce the ball on the floor on the inbounds area.

Yes... but if you say it's legal for them to bounce the ball in an out-of-bounds area then that would imply it's illegal to do so inbounds.

Edit: I think maybe you misunderstood what I was getting at... or I didn't explain it very well.

[Nevadaref]

I agree with Camron and Rich that there is no rule against the OOB pass between teammates behind the end line touching the wall or a chair or something else which is OOB. The only restriction is upon the actual throw-in pass.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by tjones1

I see what you're saying...but if it didn't matter why would the Fed say "A1 dribbles the ball on the floor on the out-of-bounds area" ... why wouldn't they just say A1 dribbles the ball on an out-of-bounds area?

Because it was written for more likely situations. How many of us have actually seen Rich's play?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by tjones1

True...

However, 9.2.2 Situation D states a player may bounce the ball on the floor on the out-of-bounds area prior to making a throw-in.

The wall is not on the floor.

Agreed, but the restriction on throwin only applies to the throwin pass. If it is not a throwin pass, touching OOB along the endline is not relevant. There is no part of the throwin rule that says the ball can't touch OOB if it is to another teammate who is also OOB along the endline....it is already OOB and touching something that is OOB doesn't change anything.

However, once released on the throwin pass, it is prohibited from touching anything OOB before going inbounds.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by tjones1

True...

However, 9.2.2 Situation D states a player may bounce the ball on the floor on the out-of-bounds area prior to making a throw-in.

The wall is not on the floor.

And 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the passes along the end-line do not involve the wall. The ruels / cases can't cover every contingency (what if it was a stage? A photographer? A speaker? ....)

Since it's just a pass to a team-mate, what possible advantage could the offense gain by making the pass more difficult? So, allow it.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

And 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the passes along the end-line do not involve the wall. The ruels / cases can't cover every contingency (what if it was a stage? A photographer? A speaker? ....)

Since it's just a pass to a team-mate, what possible advantage could the offense gain by making the pass more difficult? So, allow it.

It seems so obvious now, but believe me -- when it happened it didn't seem that obvious to the "offended" coach or half the officials I relayed the story to.

You're right -- it doesn't happen often mainly because so few teams run a play like this. We have lot of gyms with tight spaces around here -- I seem to end up in every one of them. Some big schools, some small.

[Upward ref]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

It seems so obvious now, but believe me -- when it happened it didn't seem that obvious to the "offended" coach or half the officials I relayed the story to.

You're right -- it doesn't happen often mainly because so few teams run a play like this. We have lot of gyms with tight spaces around here -- I seem to end up in every one of them. Some big schools, some small.

If there is no restraining line marked, we can still impose one on the defense right? Seems like doing this before giving the ball to the thrower might help somewhat in these situations.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Upward ref

If there is no restraining line marked, we can still impose one on the defense right? Seems like doing this before giving the ball to the thrower might help somewhat in these situations.

Of course, but the gyms aren't *that* tight. It's the sidelines in those gyms that usually require the restraining line.

[tjones1]

I agree, Bob, no advantage gained.

Ok, I'm buying that...I tried to make a valid argument and tried to bend the situation in 9.2.2 in my favor. However, if you would have giving ruling from 9.2.2 Situation D you would of had me... just trying to create a little discussion.

9.2.2 Situation D

Ruling: Legal, a player may bounce the ball on the out-of-bounds area prior to making a throw-in.

Granted, in my opinion, it would be a silly play unless you are playing Horse or making an And 1 video... I've got nothing unless they can't complete the throw-in within 5-seconds.

Good stuff!

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by tjones1

It would be a silly play unless you are playing Horse or making an And 1 video

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