Wild Throw-in vs. Pressure

[BillyMac]

Does the NFHS have a donut hole in this specific situation? Is there no specific rule or casebook situation to cover a "run the endline" throwin where A1 throws a bounce pass to A2, where A1, A2, and the place where the bounce pass hits (the wall) are all out of bounds?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by tjones1

I see what you're saying...but if it didn't matter why would the Fed say "A1 dribbles the ball on the floor on the out-of-bounds area" ... why wouldn't they just say A1 dribbles the ball on an out-of-bounds area?

Because it's illegal for him to bounce the ball on the floor on the inbounds area.

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Because it's illegal for him to bounce the ball on the floor on the inbounds area.

Yes... but if you say it's legal for them to bounce the ball in an out-of-bounds area then that would imply it's illegal to do so inbounds.

Edit: I think maybe you misunderstood what I was getting at... or I didn't explain it very well.

[Nevadaref]

I agree with Camron and Rich that there is no rule against the OOB pass between teammates behind the end line touching the wall or a chair or something else which is OOB. The only restriction is upon the actual throw-in pass.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

It's only a violation if the ball hit the wall and then came onto the court, which is what I think you're saying.

I'd rule the same as you.

That's exactly what I was saying, Rich. And I was aware of that case play also.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by tjones1

True...

However, 9.2.2 Situation D states a player may bounce the ball on the floor on the out-of-bounds area prior to making a throw-in.

The wall is not on the floor.

And 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the passes along the end-line do not involve the wall. The ruels / cases can't cover every contingency (what if it was a stage? A photographer? A speaker? ....)

Since it's just a pass to a team-mate, what possible advantage could the offense gain by making the pass more difficult? So, allow it.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

And 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the passes along the end-line do not involve the wall. The ruels / cases can't cover every contingency (what if it was a stage? A photographer? A speaker? ....)

Since it's just a pass to a team-mate, what possible advantage could the offense gain by making the pass more difficult? So, allow it.

It seems so obvious now, but believe me -- when it happened it didn't seem that obvious to the "offended" coach or half the officials I relayed the story to.

You're right -- it doesn't happen often mainly because so few teams run a play like this. We have lot of gyms with tight spaces around here -- I seem to end up in every one of them. Some big schools, some small.

[Upward ref]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

It seems so obvious now, but believe me -- when it happened it didn't seem that obvious to the "offended" coach or half the officials I relayed the story to.

You're right -- it doesn't happen often mainly because so few teams run a play like this. We have lot of gyms with tight spaces around here -- I seem to end up in every one of them. Some big schools, some small.

If there is no restraining line marked, we can still impose one on the defense right? Seems like doing this before giving the ball to the thrower might help somewhat in these situations.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Upward ref

If there is no restraining line marked, we can still impose one on the defense right? Seems like doing this before giving the ball to the thrower might help somewhat in these situations.

Of course, but the gyms aren't *that* tight. It's the sidelines in those gyms that usually require the restraining line.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by Upward ref

If there is no restraining line marked, we can still impose one on the defense right? Seems like doing this before giving the ball to the thrower might help somewhat in these situations.

Keep in mind that in many of these situations (such as the one I described originally), the throw-ins are following made baskets, therefore, we have no real opportunity to impose one on the defense. There is a full 3 feet behind the end line and the wall, but virtually no more.

[tjones1]

I agree, Bob, no advantage gained.

Ok, I'm buying that...I tried to make a valid argument and tried to bend the situation in 9.2.2 in my favor. However, if you would have giving ruling from 9.2.2 Situation D you would of had me... just trying to create a little discussion.

9.2.2 Situation D

Ruling: Legal, a player may bounce the ball on the out-of-bounds area prior to making a throw-in.

Granted, in my opinion, it would be a silly play unless you are playing Horse or making an And 1 video... I've got nothing unless they can't complete the throw-in within 5-seconds.

Good stuff!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by tjones1

I see what you're saying...but if it didn't matter why would the Fed say "A1 dribbles the ball on the floor on the out-of-bounds area" ... why wouldn't they just say A1 dribbles the ball on an out-of-bounds area?

Because it was written for more likely situations. How many of us have actually seen Rich's play?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by tjones1

It would be a silly play unless you are playing Horse or making an And 1 video

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