Words can't describe.... this video.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Welpe

OK upon further review, it was only one T at the end of the game but I still don't call that smart.

Right, two free throws plus a likely possession.

[riverfalls57]

This game was a playoff game at Concordia College in St Paul. In MN it is OK to wear the side panel shirt. I have this team on Friday night.

[smginnis]

"I'll just tag on to what most have concluded here.............I don't feel he's an idiot, he is an idiot. Nothing you can tell me about this man excuses the behavior he demonstrated on this video. Additionally, you mention that this modus operandi apparently doesn't bother him. That only solidifies his idiot stature.

It's all about him. Pitiful, and you buy into this nonsense."

I can tell you, I do buy into the nonsense. And so does the rest of the students, prospective students, the administration, and most importantly - donors; which is what DeLaSalle owns its existence to. There is no question that in this instance, the coach went too far. His penalty was to be ejected out of the game and be suspended for the next (have no idea how that turned out). However, DeLaSalle basketball and sports is a HUGE deal to DeLaSalle students, and the surrounding community. It's proven when 1,000 people pile into to a see basketball game for a school that only has 500 students. This is one example of a coach going too far, but its an underlying expression of passion that everyone generally buys into.

This can't be compared to murder, or physical violence, or even the classroom. If we followed the logic of classroom expectations being transposed into school events, then we would all be raising our hand to talk? I get the point, but it's not black and white.

Obviously, we can argue about philosophical differences all day, but as I said; As an official,I enjoy games where I'm getting a little "action" from coaches. Its one (of many) indicators that I'm officiating a game where people care, want to do well. For me, its only frustrating when A) coaches pass blame game outcome on the officials B) they don't understand the rules C) the players really are mimicking the coach (which I penalize Immediately) D) There is anything that I feel might lead to, include, or suggest physical abuse.... ok this list could continue on, but you get the point.

I think the coach crossed part D on the first technical and should have been tossed right away. Otherwise, coaches can jump up and down, whine, yell, and cry to the moon all they want.

[smginnis]

Originally Posted by riverfalls57

This game was a playoff game at Concordia College in St Paul. In MN it is OK to wear the side panel shirt. I have this team on Friday night.

Yea, I've seen the side panel as the new standard. Although the "breezy" side panel jerseys may go away due to the frequent piling. The important part is ensuring that both officials match. I would touch base with your partner.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

The block looks clean, but I'm not sure whether he was fould prior to landing by the defender who looks like he's moving towards him. It's hard to tell with this angle, but it looked horrible at full speed.

Which proves what we've been saying, a video now slowed down, brings us to another conclusion or at least me. I thought in original he may have been fouled coming back to floor but new video seems that defender is off to side.

Goodness, officials were right there, I trust them. There just isn't enough evidence to say for sure.

The only certainty from any speed, any angle is coach remains an idiot.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by smginnis

I can tell you, I do buy into the nonsense. And so does the rest of the students, prospective students, the administration, and most importantly - donors; which is what DeLaSalle owns its existence to. There is no question that in this instance, the coach went too far. His penalty was to be ejected out of the game and be suspended for the next (have no idea how that turned out). However, DeLaSalle basketball and sports is a HUGE deal to DeLaSalle students, and the surrounding community. It's proven when 1,000 people pile into to a see basketball game for a school that only has 500 students. This is one example of a coach going too far, but its an underlying expression of passion that everyone generally buys into.

Like I said, the Bobby Knight of MN hs basketball. And apparently, the school is willing to bend over for him by scheduling a meaningless post season game to help him serve his suspension in a manner that suits him.

That sort of outburst was completely unprofessional. He may be good at coaching, but I'd no sooner want him coaching my son than Bobby Knight.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by smginnis

"I'll just tag on to what most have concluded here.............I don't feel he's an idiot, he is an idiot. Nothing you can tell me about this man excuses the behavior he demonstrated on this video. Additionally, you mention that this modus operandi apparently doesn't bother him. That only solidifies his idiot stature.

It's all about him. Pitiful, and you buy into this nonsense."

I can tell you, I do buy into the nonsense. And so does the rest of the students, prospective students, the administration, and most importantly - donors; which is what DeLaSalle owns its existence to. There is no question that in this instance, the coach went too far. His penalty was to be ejected out of the game and be suspended for the next (have no idea how that turned out). However, DeLaSalle basketball and sports is a HUGE deal to DeLaSalle students, and the surrounding community. It's proven when 1,000 people pile into to a see basketball game for a school that only has 500 students. This is one example of a coach going too far, but its an underlying expression of passion that everyone generally buys into.

This can't be compared to murder, or physical violence, or even the classroom. If we followed the logic of classroom expectations being transposed into school events, then we would all be raising our hand to talk? I get the point, but it's not black and white.

Obviously, we can argue about philosophical differences all day, but as I said; As an official,I enjoy games where I'm getting a little "action" from coaches. Its one (of many) indicators that I'm officiating a game where people care, want to do well. For me, its only frustrating when A) coaches pass blame game outcome on the officials B) they don't understand the rules C) the players really are mimicking the coach (which I penalize Immediately) D) There is anything that I feel might lead to, include, or suggest physical abuse.... ok this list could continue on, but you get the point.

I think the coach crossed part D on the first technical and should have been tossed right away. Otherwise, coaches can jump up and down, whine, yell, and cry to the moon all they want.

I went to a private, Catholic, all boys school probably similar to this school.

I can look back on all my coaches who I respect to this day and not once did they throw a childish tantrum as this 'coach' did. If you describe this as passion, I fear for the man's spouse! Just silly theatrics really, and in my area he'd be long gone as a coach.
I realize it's just a thirty second clip, but it's very clownish and would really get old to all involved.

Has he considered community theater?

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Like I said, the Bobby Knight of MN hs basketball. And apparently, the school is willing to bend over for him by scheduling a meaningless post season game to help him serve his suspension in a manner that suits him.

That sort of outburst was completely unprofessional. He may be good at coaching, but I'd no sooner want him coaching my son than Bobby Knight.

Excellent point Snaqs, I have a young son who plays and certainly wouldn't want him 'leading' my kid.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Based on the angle and the quality of the video, I do not see anything different from what I saw originally. The officials on the game did not call a foul, as far as I am concerned I see nothing that makes this a foul in slow motion.

Peace

JRut,
It is the same video clip. Apparently a student from the coach's school created the slower versions of the clip. I think it is EASIER to see the hand on the ball from behind (looks quite clean). It is also easier to see the contact from the front which happened just after the ball was hit by the other defender. I think the lead had a good view of the hand on the ball. He appeared to get so enamored with the clean block (yielding his signal), that he may have missed (I will accept your view that he may have "ignored") the contact by the second defender who got nothing but arm as the ball was already popped loose by the trailing defender.

As Snaqs said, it looked horrible at full speed....

The fact it was a playoff/tournament game would explain why a coach may be more hyped up than normal as their jobs can ride on successful runs in the tournament. Then again, their jobs can also ride on proper behavior all game long as well.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

JRut,
It is the same video clip. Apparently a student from the coach's school created the slower versions of the clip. I think it is EASIER to see the hand on the ball from behind (looks quite clean). It is also easier to see the contact from the front which happened just after the ball was hit by the other defender. I think the lead had a good view of the hand on the ball. He appeared to get so enamored with the clean block (yielding his signal), that he may have missed (I will accept your view that he may have "ignored") the contact by the second defender who got nothing but arm as the ball was already popped loose by the trailing defender.

Duuuuhhhh!!!! Of course it is the same video but slowed down.

I am also of the contention, contact is not a foul. It must put someone at an advantage or a disadvantage. You have a player falling to the ground because the ball is taken out of his hands, not because someone contacted him after the fact. I do not know anyone that would advocate this being a foul by any evaluator that I have come in contact with. Either the blocking action was a foul or it was not a foul. Nothing else was illegal here and not simple contact does not mean a foul was committed.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

I think it is EASIER to see the hand on the ball from behind (looks quite clean). It is also easier to see the contact from the front which happened just after the ball was hit by the other defender. I think the lead had a good view of the hand on the ball. He appeared to get so enamored with the clean block (yielding his signal), that he may have missed (I will accept your view that he may have "ignored") the contact by the second defender who got nothing but arm as the ball was already popped loose by the trailing defender.

Imo the L didn't ignore anything. He correctly ruled the subsequent contact as being incidental during a loose ball. There was no advantage gained or lost by that contact that i could see. I agree completely with Jeff's take on the play.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by smginnis

"
Obviously, we can argue about philosophical differences all day, but as I said; As an official,I enjoy games where I'm getting a little "action" from coaches. .

The things this coach does in the video go so far beyond a "little action" that it makes your stance seem quite ridiculous.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

JRut,
I think the lead had a good view of the hand on the ball. He appeared to get so enamored with the clean block (yielding his signal), that he may have missed (I will accept your view that he may have "ignored") the contact by the second defender who got nothing but arm as the ball was already popped loose by the trailing defender.

I think that is more than likely. If the ball has already been stripped and is away, what possible advantage might be gained by the contact on the arm. Unless it is intentional/flagrant, I'm not calling it a foul.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Duuuuhhhh!!!! Of course it is the same video but slowed down.

I am also of the contention, contact is not a foul. It must put someone at an advantage or a disadvantage. You have a player falling to the ground because the ball is taken out of his hands, not because someone contacted him after the fact. I do not know anyone that would advocate this being a foul by any evaluator that I have come in contact with. Either the blocking action was a foul or it was not a foul. Nothing else was illegal here and not simple contact does not mean a foul was committed.

Peace

Question for you. I think I know the answer based on your replies up to this point, but answer this, please.

A5 goes up for a shot in the lane. B5 goes up and cleanly blocks the shot with his hand and there is a minimal amount of body contact. Meanwhile, B4 has come over to help. He also jumps to block the shot and comes down on top of A5 knocking him down. Are you calling the foul on B4 for contact on the airborne shooter or are you ignoring the contact as simple non-advantageous contact since B5 had already blocked the shot prior to B4's contact?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

Question for you. I think I know the answer based on your replies up to this point, but answer this, please.

A5 goes up for a shot in the lane. B5 goes up and cleanly blocks the shot with his hand and there is a minimal amount of body contact. Meanwhile, B4 has come over to help. He also jumps to block the shot and comes down on top of A5 knocking him down. Are you calling the foul on B4 for contact on the airborne shooter or are you ignoring the contact as simple non-advantageous contact since B5 had already blocked the shot prior to B4's contact?

I'm calling it based on the part I highlighted.

From the video, however, it's hazy enough you can't tell whether the second defender fouled the shooter, or whether he got knocked down by the momentum of the ball being stripped.