What do you think?

Rita C · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 30, 2009, 10:26pm

I'm in lead. The ball goes up, comes down on the other side of the basket. Two players go for it. Blue player, behind, white player in front. at blue's basket. Left arm of blue has such violent action on white player that headband goes flying. I blow whistle on foul as blue attempts a shot. (This all takes during the first half. So blue coach does not, cannot see foul.) I point to where the ball comes in, say white takes ball in.

I report the foul on the blue player. Blue coach is understandably upset as he could not have seen the foul. I turn to him and tell him, "Coach, foul was on the rebound, your player fouled the white player....."

Suddenly one of my partners is blowing his whistle, says, "Ball is on the ground, lets go!"

During halftime, he tells me that is all I should have said to the coach. He said that we shouldn't be saying too much to the coach, just tell him the ball is on the ground and go. He said the other coach was getting pissed off.

I agree that we shouldn't be saying too much to the coach. And maybe I what I said was too much. But I do think that just as we have to live and die with our own calls, I should not have been interrupted like that. I really feel he was out of line and undermined my authority.

I'm interested in your opinions.

Rita

Nevadaref · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 30, 2009, 10:30pm

Actually, he may have felt that he was supporting you and backing you up.

Some people are very sensitive, perhaps too much so, to what their partner does or does not do on the court. Just worry about yourself. If you are happy with what you called and what you said to the coach, then don't worry about anything else.

Bad Zebra · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 30, 2009, 10:51pm

Let me guess...partner was a 30+ year guy who's seen it all and done it all? From what you've posted, I'd say there was definitely a lack of respect. Who's to say your method wasn't better game management??? You were right to confront him at the half. Some guys are just thick and set in their ways.

Rita C · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 30, 2009, 11:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

Let me guess...partner was a 30+ year guy who's seen it all and done it all? From what you've posted, I'd say there was definitely a lack of respect. Who's to say your method wasn't better game management??? You were right to confront him at the half. Some guys are just thick and set in their ways.

55+. And so am I. (Well at my next birthday.) Actually, newer official than me by about three years. I knew from the first that he would outrank me in a few years. And he has.

Rita

Bad Zebra · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 30, 2009, 11:12pm

I meant 30+ years of experience, not age. In any event...still lacked respect on his part. How does he outrank you, in his mind?

Adam · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 30, 2009, 11:18pm

As Nevada pointed out, he may have felt he was trying to back you up by pulling you away from the coach. I've had veteran partners pregame that they would do this if the conversation went a little long. I don't think he did it well, to be sure, but I think that was his intent.

That said, did the coach ask you what happened? Or was he just venting? I'll take the time to answer a question in this situation, but I'm not going to respond to an angry rant.

Rita C · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 30, 2009, 11:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

I meant 30+ years of experience, not age. In any event...still lacked respect on his part. How does he outrank you, in his mind?

He started in the association about 2006. In our association we rank each other at the end of the season. We get a sheet and give every official we have watched officiate a number between 55 and 99. These are tallied and rankings are based on these numbers. He has moved to 13 from 21 last year. I'm probably about 34.

Rita

Rita C · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 30, 2009, 11:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

As Nevada pointed out, he may have felt he was trying to back you up by pulling you away from the coach. I've had veteran partners pregame that they would do this if the conversation went a little long. I don't think he did it well, to be sure, but I think that was his intent.

That said, did the coach ask you what happened? Or was he just venting? I'll take the time to answer a question in this situation, but I'm not going to respond to an angry rant.

The coach asked. His player made a shot as I blew the whistle, so I'm thinking that he didn't realize the foul happened as his player was getting the ball for the shot. He couldn't have seen the foul through the scrum.

Rita

Adam · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 30, 2009, 11:26pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rita C

The coach asked. His player made a shot as I blew the whistle, so I'm thinking that he didn't realize the foul happened as his player was getting the ball for the shot. He couldn't have seen the foul through the scrum.

Rita

I was just wondering, I'd answer this question, too, and I'd be a bit miffed at a partner who cut me off at the knees while doing so. Does your association not want you answering questions? If that's the case, then I guess you're in Rome.

Mark Padgett · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 30, 2009, 11:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rita C

We get a sheet and give every official we have watched officiate a number between 55 and 99.

So...everyone gets a 55, because anything above that is an illegal number?

Rita C · #11 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 31, 2009, 12:34am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

So...everyone gets a 55, because anything above that is an illegal number?

I think the idea is to prevent someone giving a really bad number out of spite.

The lowest and highest are thrown out and the rest are averaged.

Rita

Rita C · #12 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 31, 2009, 12:39am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I was just wondering, I'd answer this question, too, and I'd be a bit miffed at a partner who cut me off at the knees while doing so. Does your association not want you answering questions? If that's the case, then I guess you're in Rome.

I'm going to ask someone else in the association and see.

I've been officiating for 11 years now. I'd like to think I've developed a good sense of game management. If a coach is asking a reasonable question, he should get a reasonable answer. And I couldn't care less if this is pissing off the other coach. (My partner's excuse.) He'll get the same when it's his turn. (Especially when the call is in his favor!)

Rita

Back In The Saddle · #13 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 31, 2009, 03:40am

It would be interesting to know what your partner thought he was accomplishing, and why he thought that was more important than letting you take care of your own business. But just from your side of the story, I'd be pretty angry at the guy.

KJUmp · #14 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 31, 2009, 09:08am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rita C

I'm in lead. The ball goes up, comes down on the other side of the basket. Two players go for it. Blue player, behind, white player in front. at blue's basket. Left arm of blue has such violent action on white player that headband goes flying. I blow whistle on foul as blue attempts a shot. (This all takes during the first half. So blue coach does not, cannot see foul.) I point to where the ball comes in, say white takes ball in.

I report the foul on the blue player. Blue coach is understandably upset as he could not have seen the foul. I turn to him and tell him, "Coach, foul was on the rebound, your player fouled the white player....."

Suddenly one of my partners is blowing his whistle, says, "Ball is on the ground, lets go!"

During halftime, he tells me that is all I should have said to the coach. He said that we shouldn't be saying too much to the coach, just tell him the ball is on the ground and go. He said the other coach was getting pissed off.

I agree that we shouldn't be saying too much to the coach. And maybe I what I said was too much. But I do think that just as we have to live and die with our own calls, I should not have been interrupted like that. I really feel he was out of line and undermined my authority.

I'm interested in your opinions.

Rita

If he thought that the other coach getting pissed off was the issue, he should have/could have used some game management skills to quietly and professionally calm him down without making a scene that would escalate the situation.
Noway should he have cut you off at the knees like that. If he had an issue with how you handled the sitch, discuss it at halftime. Based on what you said in a later post, IMO he was showing you up and "pulling rank". Unacceptable. You're not a "newbie". You have 11 years experience. You've earned the right to handle things the way you think best. Of course we all strive to learn and work to become better officials each and every game. Advice/comments/constructive criticism from our partners or other officials watching the game is part of that ongoing process. You just don't do it the way your P did.

bob jenkins · #15 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 31, 2009, 09:17am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rita C

The coach asked. His player made a shot as I blew the whistle, so I'm thinking that he didn't realize the foul happened as his player was getting the ball for the shot. He couldn't have seen the foul through the scrum.

Rita

If you reported the full conversation, then it didn't take too long and you were right to address it.

That said, given his question, perhaps it implies that you could have been more communicative at the spot of the foul (wave off the shot, use the voice, "before the shot, on the rebound, foul on blue xx")