bad day

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

But, then, after being assessed a technical, what if he still doesn't provide the sub?

The phrase "......repeatedly commits technical-foul infractions...." is contained in 5-4-1. At some point you would have no choice.

Agreed. In this scenario, once it becomes obvious he's going to be an a$$, start it again. He'll have his two if he doesn't comply. I'm not sure the rule really addresses what to do here, though, but this situation could conceivably escalate to forfeiture. First, however, you'd have:
1. first T and the seat belt.
2. second T and ejection.
3. Now, you're dealing with the Assistant coach who just watched you dump his boss. Think he's really going to push you too hard?

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Agreed. In this scenario, once it becomes obvious he's going to be an a$$, start it again. He'll have his two if he doesn't comply. I'm not sure the rule really addresses what to do here, though, but this situation could conceivably escalate to forfeiture. First, however, you'd have:
1. first T and the seat belt.
2. second T and ejection.
3. Now, you're dealing with the Assistant coach who just watched you dump his boss. Think he's really going to push you too hard?

That, or an ejected coach who doesn't comply with leaving the gymnasium, in which case you would definitely be supported in declaring a forfeit.

Anyway, there's no support for the forfeit prior to that escalation, IMO.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Agreed. In this scenario, once it becomes obvious he's going to be an a$$, start it again. He'll have his two if he doesn't comply. I'm not sure the rule really addresses what to do here, though, but this situation could conceivably escalate to forfeiture. First, however, you'd have:
1. first T and the seat belt.
2. second T and ejection.
3. Now, you're dealing with the Assistant coach who just watched you dump his boss. Think he's really going to push you too hard?

There is sometimes no figuring what people might do. My experience went like this.

jr. high girls

Whistle for a violation.

Coach: "YOU'RE CRAZY! YOU ARE CRAZY!!"

whack

Coach: (closer and louder) "YOU'LL NEVER DO THIS TO ME AGAIN!!"

whack (bye)

A female teacher and the principal came to finish the game. She did the coaching. He just sat there. Their team was down and the game was already over for all practical purposes, when a timeout was called with just a few seconds left.

Principal: "This is the second time I've seen you throw a game."

whack

Principal: "Good, call another."

whack

Principal: "Why don't you just go to hell."

ball game

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by just another ref

There is sometimes no figuring what people might do. My experience went like this.

jr. high girls

Whistle for a violation.

Coach: "YOU'RE CRAZY! YOU ARE CRAZY!!"

whack

Coach: (closer and louder) "YOU'LL NEVER DO THIS TO ME AGAIN!!"

whack (bye)

A female teacher and the principal came to finish the game. She did the coaching. He just sat there. Their team was down and the game was already over for all practical purposes, when a timeout was called with just a few seconds left.

Principal: "This is the second time I've seen you throw a game."

whack

Principal: "Good, call another."

whack

Principal: "Why don't you just go to hell."

ball game

This would be the one time I would look forward to filling out the paperwork...

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by just another ref

There is sometimes no figuring what people might do. My experience went like this.

jr. high girls

Whistle for a violation.

Coach: "YOU'RE CRAZY! YOU ARE CRAZY!!"

whack

Coach: (closer and louder) "YOU'LL NEVER DO THIS TO ME AGAIN!!"

whack (bye)

A female teacher and the principal came to finish the game. She did the coaching. He just sat there. Their team was down and the game was already over for all practical purposes, when a timeout was called with just a few seconds left.

Principal: "This is the second time I've seen you throw a game."

whack

Principal: "Good, call another."

whack

Principal: "Why don't you just go to hell."

ball game

That is fantastic. Seriously great stuff.

And all that in a Jr. High girls game. Love it.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Agreed. In this scenario, once it becomes obvious he's going to be an a$$, start it again. He'll have his two if he doesn't comply. I'm not sure the rule really addresses what to do here, though, but this situation could conceivably escalate to forfeiture. First, however, you'd have:
1. first T and the seat belt.
2. second T and ejection.
3. Now, you're dealing with the Assistant coach who just watched you dump his boss. Think he's really going to push you too hard?

"The referee shall forfeit the game if a team refuses to play after being instructed to do so by any official. The referee may also forfeit a game if any player, team member, bench personnel or coach fails to comply with any technical-foul penalty, or repeatedly commits technical-foul infractions or other acts which make a travesty of the game. If the team to which the game is forfeited is ahead, the score at the time of forfeiture shall stand. If this team is not ahead, the score shall be recorded as 2-0 in its favor." (NFHS 5-4)

If the bonehead still won't give you a replacement after you whack him you could quite logically consider that a refusal to play. It also fits very nicely with "repeatedly commits technical-foul infractions". Both are grounds for a forfeit.

However, if it were me I'd whack him again and send him packing. Hopefully that solves to the problem. As long as his successor gets me a replacement PDQ, we go on (albeit with his successor sporting a leash measurable only in microns). Otherwise we're all going home.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Smitty

This would be the one time I would look forward to filling out the paperwork...

No paperwork for jr. high here.

He followed me, still talking.


"I'm gonna call (my assignor)!"

Good, I thought. Don't forget to mention the "go to hell" part.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

However, if it were me I'd whack him again and send him packing. Hopefully that solves to the problem. As long as his successor gets me a replacement PDQ, we go on (albeit with his successor sporting a leash measurable only in microns). Otherwise we're all going home.

Me too. In Ohio ejected coaches are subject to a $100 fine and are required to take an online (anger management?) course at their own expense (I've heard costs between $35-50). A second ejection in a season wins an all-expenses-charged trip to visit the commish in Columbus.

I'm not passing up the consolation prizes just to get home early one night.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by just another ref

No paperwork for jr. high here.

No paperwork required, or no paperwork allowed?

It's worth a report.

[chartrusepengui]

MS sports in one conference I work at are not official members of the WIAA. 2 yrs ago I had a situation where visiting coach was bickering over every call and crossed the line. WHACK! Now she becomes livid ranting..... and she then walked on the court and in a loud voice told me I didn't have the balls to giver her another one. WHACK! and see ya later.

I wrote report to state even thought they are not official members. The state acted - and quickly. I was sent a copy of the letter sent to the superintendent, principal, athletic director and coach. WOW! It was serious. It even required the school to supply hiring date, information on any parent problems, and scores of the annual rules examination that she should have been taking and any other pertinant information - to be faxed within 2 business days.

My partner and I both received letters of apology from the superintendant of schools, principal and AD within 5 days of the incident. We also received a letter from the state telling us they had done an investigation and taken appropriate steps to ensure this would not happen again. We were stunned by how quickly this took place.

Definately worth the time to make the report.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

If the bonehead still won't give you a replacement after you whack him you could quite logically consider that a refusal to play. It also fits very nicely with "repeatedly commits technical-foul infractions". Both are grounds for a forfeit.

The comic book (Simplified and Illustrated) has a statement along the lines that after issuing a technical foul to a coach for him/her refusing to send in a sub on a disqualified player, the official should not issue a second technical but should declare a forfeit.

I don't see that exact play in the casebook though and I think I'd prefer to go the route of issuing a second technical.

[Back In The Saddle]

Me too.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

No paperwork required, or no paperwork allowed?

It's worth a report.

There is no paperwork involving jr. high here and no place to send it. Jr. high basketball is unregulated. Use anyone you want to officiate it.

The situation was reported. The principal did call my assignor, but the home coach/principal had already called first on my behalf. I believe his statement was something to this effect: "No matter who was calling, it wouldn't have satisfied these people."

Bottom line is I was not supposed to call games for the school in question until all this blew over, which took years.

[rsl]

My high school schedule in November has been half JV with varsity partners and half freshman/sophomore with rookies. I am learning that when you have a rookie partner the coaches are going to bark, even if the rookies do a reasonable job.

Tonight, with another rookie partner, I called the T in the first quarter, and we had a great game from there on.

A T can be a beautiful thing ...