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-   -   King for a day (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/55942-king-day.html)

Smitty Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 643003)
From a thread from two months ago:

I go back to before the alternating possession arrow, when we had jump balls to start each period, for each held ball situation, and even for closely guarded situations, at three different circles on the court, with a lot of different players involved. Back then, because we had so many jump balls, coaches actually had jump ball plays, depending on which circle, and the probability of winning, or losing the tap. These coaches knew the various rules regarding jump balls, and taught these rules to their players. Officials, again, because there were so many jump balls, knew all the jump ball rules like the back of their hand, and good officials actually spent time practicing tosses by tossing the ball up through a basket from below, usually before preseason scrimmages. Now that we have only one jump ball a game, plus overtimes, coaches don't really know the rules, and since they don't know the rules, their players don't know the rules. It’s the same with officials. Now that we have only one jump ball a game, plus overtimes, officials, myself included, don't know the various jump ball rules as well now as we did before the advent of alternating possessions. And these rules aren't easy to understand, especially when you have to apply them in a split second, and only get the opportunity to apply them a few dozen times each season, half the time as the tosser, and the other half of the time as the official observing the jump ball. Jumpers, players on the circle, players off the circle. Official ready to toss, official tosses, ball is tapped. Open spots on the circle, filled spots on the circle. Moving onto the circle, moving off of the circle. Today, it seems like the two tallest kids get to jump, a few shorter kids match up on the circle, and a few more match up off the circle. The official throws up the toss, not with the same skill that I saw many years ago, and the other official stands back and hopes that nothing "odd", or "weird", happens, that is, "odd enough”, or "weird enough”, to be immediately recognized as a violation. Over the past 100 years, we’ve gone from jump balls after every basket; to jump balls to start each period, for each held ball situation, and for closely guarded situations, at three different circles on the court; to a single jump ball at the center circle to start the game, plus overtimes, with alternating possessions after that. I think that the next logical progression is to start the game with a coin toss, like they do in soccer, football, and probably a few other sports. Or let the visitors get to go on offense first, like in baseball, or softball.

Well I disagree with your logic. I don't find the jump ball rules that hard to digest and understand. We typically have a jump ball every game, so these rules should be thought about every game and will be fresh. Now the correctable error rule, which we rarely ever have to actually implement, is infintely more complicated in my opinion. Jump ball rules are simple compared to correctable errors.

j51969 Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:16pm

I remember quite some time ago I did a pre-season G tournament in Iowa where they experimented with the shot clock. It worked well, but we did have some issues with the personnel running the clock at times. There would be a rather big learning curve for officials and the table getting started. Can't say I remember what ever came of it. Anyone from Iowa have anything?

SmokeEater Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:17pm

It's interesting to read all of the posts and desired changes in this thread. Most I think mirror in concept what FIBA rules enforces.

So if I had to be King for a day I would liek to have all levels of basketball in every part of the world play with the same rules set, (i really don't care which one), just get some uniformity and don't make any modifications to them.

Mark Padgett Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:28pm

I think all games should be 8 minute quarters running clock, teams should have no timeouts, games can end in a tie after regulation, possession after a jump ball should be determined by the two players involved arm wrestling, dunking allowed only in girls games and no intentional or flagrant foul calls - let 'em get as violent as they want.

Most important - coaches must remain seated - IN THE PARKING LOT!

constable Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeEater (Post 643018)
It's interesting to read all of the posts and desired changes in this thread. Most I think mirror in concept what FIBA rules enforces.

So if I had to be King for a day I would liek to have all levels of basketball in every part of the world play with the same rules set, (i really don't care which one), just get some uniformity and don't make any modifications to them.

If I could change one FIBA rule it would be getting away from their dumb numbers system. Considering they are much more relaxed on a number of uniform issues, it seems laughable that they only permit 4-15

Adam Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeEater (Post 643018)
It's interesting to read all of the posts and desired changes in this thread. Most I think mirror in concept what FIBA rules enforces.

So if I had to be King for a day I would liek to have all levels of basketball in every part of the world play with the same rules set, (i really don't care which one), just get some uniformity and don't make any modifications to them.

I've only seen one that mirrored FIBA, Rich's "get rid of live ball timeouts." Nothing else has gone that way.

SmokeEater Wed Dec 16, 2009 01:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 643037)
I've only seen one that mirrored FIBA, Rich's "get rid of live ball timeouts." Nothing else has gone that way.

When I posted that reply I saw the posts about correctable errors and also entering the lane on Free throws which are the way FIBA is now. Or at least some resemblence to this.

Adam Wed Dec 16, 2009 01:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeEater (Post 643041)
When I posted that reply I saw the posts about correctable errors and also entering the lane on Free throws which are the way FIBA is now. Or at least some resemblence to this.

Ah, I'd forgotten about the FT thing, and didn't know FIBA had that rule on CE.

Freddy Wed Dec 16, 2009 01:16pm

Ditto
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 642957)
Coaches can only request timeout during a dead ball (including after a made basket, when we can spare a moment to glance.) All live ball TO's must be requested by a player on the team in control.

That would at least convey some of the responsibility for communication to the coach and the players where it belongs, rather than saddling the officials, in the heat of the moment with their eyes on the action, with the expectation that they hear, confirm, and acknowledge every request that's given or else they're trying to somehow shaft the team. Just last week I was accused with the words, "There, are you happy? You cost us a possession because you didn't give me a timeout when I asked for it!" (There was no player control at the time).

I've been asking coaches lately to make their TO requests somehow multisyllabic. Like "How 'bout a 60 second timeout here!" Or "We'd like a timeout." Or, "We have possession, how 'bout a timeout." When they stand there and just yell "Time!", that one word request gets lost in all the other terse orders they're barking continuously to their teams all game long. The jury is still out on the experiment.

Just make it easy...only players on the floor may request a timeout. Let the coaches teach their players to keep an eye on them instead of us. Used to be that way back when I started in the late '70's, if I remember right.

CoachP Wed Dec 16, 2009 01:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by constable (Post 643010)
OH YA- shot clocks. Shot clocks make for such a better game. In going from FIBA with a 24 second shot clock to Fed with an 4 8 minute shot clocks, it is such a better game.

So if I could change only one rule, it would be the implementation of shot clocks for all high school and up games.

  • I agree, a 48 minute shot clock would be ideal.:D (I know, I know, he was being sarcastic about 4 x 8 minute quarters.) But schools are in $$ trouble already. Install shot clocks AND find decent operators? Hold on that please....

  • FT lane restrictions end on release.

  • If the opposing coach yells "I want a time out next time we have the ball" to the official while he runs past the coach, while my player is on a fast break, that causes an inadvertant whistle stopping my break, he gets a T for unsporting.

Smitty Wed Dec 16, 2009 01:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoachP (Post 643054)
If the opposing coach yells "I want a time out next time we have the ball" to the official while he runs past the coach, while my player is on a fast break, that causes an inadvertant whistle stopping my break, he gets a T for unsporting.

How often does this ever happen in a Varsity game? This is silly.

bbcof83 Wed Dec 16, 2009 01:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by j51969 (Post 642948)
Jokes aside. If you could make "one" change to the game either a rule, or something else concerning timing (whatever your the king:cool:). Maybe even goning back to a previous rule. I personnally would like two halfs instead of quarters. I think that some states do that now(east coast?). What do you think?

MN does halves. It's great.

CoachP Wed Dec 16, 2009 01:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smitty (Post 643058)
How often does this ever happen in a Varsity game? This is silly.

Last night...except for the T part....

Smitty Wed Dec 16, 2009 02:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoachP (Post 643061)
Last night...except for the T part....

You must have had a moron for an official then. What coach in his right mind would call a timeout while his team has a fast break? Knowing this, any reputable varsity official would think to look and make sure the correct coach actually requested a timeout. I assume this was the new trail as the new lead would have been closer to you at the time?

Rich Wed Dec 16, 2009 02:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbcof83 (Post 643060)
MN does halves. It's great.

So did the game fees go up when you were forced to work 4:00 more per game?


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