Violation?!

[jdmara]

A1 dribbling towards the frontcourt with a loose man-to-man press being applied by B1. A1 stops, the ball bounces up towards A1's hands, he touches it with both hands but muffs it (he was looking up court as he tried to catch the ball). The ball falls to the floor and without moving either foot, A1 picks it up. Violation?

I've got nothing play on. The dribble ended when he touched the ball with both hands. He subsequently fumbled the ball and he may pick up the fumble. Hot topic on Friday with myself and a senior official.

-Josh

[Indianaref]

Fumble. However, he can not begin a second dribble after regaining control.

[jdmara]

Guess I should add that immediately after A1 regained control, my C whistled *Double Dribble*

-Josh

[Adam]

Figured as much. It's his judgment if it's a fumble or second dribble. Did the C agree it was a fumble or did he judge it differently?

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Figured as much. It's his judgment if it's a fumble or second dribble. Did the C agree it was a fumble or did he judge it differently?

After the game I asked him what he saw. He said he saw the player touch the ball with two hands, fumble, and retrieve the ball before anyone else touched it. I explained that touching with two hands does end the dribble (I agree) but a fumble is not a second dribble and he may retrieve his fumble. He didn't agree with me and I dropped it. He isn't someone I want to get on my bad side.

-Josh

[Adam]

I know the feeling. I've dropped many a discussion for political reasons.

[jdw3018]

Only thing I'd add, is that after he fumbles it, it doesn't matter what he does with his feet before he gathers the ball, as long as after securing the ball he doesn't travel.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by jdmara

A1 dribbling towards the frontcourt with a loose man-to-man press being applied by B1.

Despite the totally incorrect illegal dribble call by this official, I would be more worried about why my partner is looking into the backcourt as the C at the two players which the T is obviously watching. I'm more concerned about coverage areas than judgment.

Rather than question his decision on the play, you should be questioning why he was even looking there in the first place. Does he not trust you to pull your own weight on the crew?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Despite the totally incorrect illegal dribble call by this official, I would be more worried about why my partner is looking into the backcourt as the C at the two players which the T is obviously watching. I'm more concerned about coverage areas than judgment.

Rather than question his decision on the play, you should be questioning why he was even looking there in the first place. Does he not trust you to pull your own weight on the crew?

Probably for the same reason he wouldn't consider that he might be wrong.

[sseltser]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Despite the totally incorrect illegal dribble call by this official, I would be more worried about why my partner is looking into the backcourt as the C at the two players which the T is obviously watching. I'm more concerned about coverage areas than judgment.

Rather than question his decision on the play, you should be questioning why he was even looking there in the first place. Does he not trust you to pull your own weight on the crew?

Disclaimer: my area predominately uses two officials and I have only worked in a crew of 3 a handful of times.

However, I will say this: if you watch college games on TV, it is my observation that when here is a 1-on-1 matchup coming up for the floor, you will see 4 eyes on those 2 guys more often than 2 eyes only. It seems that the C does a lot of assisting the T as the ball is advancing up the floor up to the point that a regular offensive set begins. Judging by this observation alone, I have no problem with having another set of eyes in the backcourt at this time.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by sseltser

Disclaimer: my area predominately uses two officials and I have only worked in a crew of 3 a handful of times.

However, I will say this: if you watch college games on TV, it is my observation that when here is a 1-on-1 matchup coming up for the floor, you will see 4 eyes on those 2 guys more often than 2 eyes only. It seems that the C does a lot of assisting the T as the ball is advancing up the floor up to the point that a regular offensive set begins. Judging by this observation alone, I have no problem with having another set of eyes in the backcourt at this time.

I certainly have a MAJOR problem with it. It is dead wrong because it leaves the L with EIGHT players to watch.

Sorry, but what you are seeing on TV is the old school way which is being eradicated. It is a detriment to the game to have the C out there ball-watching. If the T can't officiate 1-on-1 by himself, then he shouldn't be on the d@mn court!

[Adam]

Nevada's right. That's something I was told to work on. The instinct as C is to hang back for a press, but when it's only 2, you should get down to your primary and help the L.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I certainly have a MAJOR problem with it. It is dead wrong because it leaves the L with EIGHT players to watch.

Sorry, but what you are seeing on TV is the old school way which is being eradicated. It is a detriment to the game to have the C out there ball-watching. If the T can't officiate 1-on-1 by himself, then he shouldn't be on the d@mn court!

Simple matter of math. With three officials and ten players, we have to trust our partner(s) -- who make up 33 1/3% or 50% of the referee team -- to referee two players (20% of the players). Understanding that typically there is more action close to the ball, a competent official should still be able to handle a 1v1 situation without assistance.

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Despite the totally incorrect illegal dribble call by this official, I would be more worried about why my partner is looking into the backcourt as the C at the two players which the T is obviously watching. I'm more concerned about coverage areas than judgment.

Rather than question his decision on the play, you should be questioning why he was even looking there in the first place. Does he not trust you to pull your own weight on the crew?

Believe me Nevada, I was thinking the same thing. But since I'm just getting into this circle of officials I kept my mouth shut. The major problem that I have is that I look a hell of a lot young than I actually am. It gives me the sense that my partners do not trust me as much from the beginning. I try to make up for that with hustle, determination, and making sure to have a good pre-game that I'm actively involved in (if not leading). It's a learning experience. I got a note yesterday from the assigner that we were commended by both coaches via e-mail. So I'm happy with what we did even though we had a few situations we probably missed a call or two that we should have gotten.

-Josh