1st year questions

[dsqrddgd909]

1. Why do some vets use the minimal verbal signals when administering free throws and reporting fouls, but say "Going Down" or "Staying here." on throw ins? It's very confusing for jr high especially.

2. Am I in the minority in my belief that more Delay of Game warnings and DOG technical fouls should be called for knocking the ball away after scoring a basket?

[zebraman]

1) I am a vet and I have never said, "going down." I don't even know what that means. I know what "staying here" means, but I never use that either. When a ball goes out of bounds, I raise my arm to stop the clock and then point the direction while verbalizing the color. Don't assume that every "vet" does things right or even that they are high quality officials. In fact, if they are still doing a lot of jr. high ball, there may be a reason (not that there is anything wrong with working lower levels whatsoever).

2) I would have to see specific plays to say whether or not a delay-of-game should be called. Was the game delayed due to the action? I have seen offensive teams tap the ball towards the endline after a basket when it actually assisted the other team in getting a quicker throw-in. No delay there (although I usually tell them to "leave the ball alone after a made hoop" as we're coming up the floor).

[Adam]

1. For throwins, point and "color" is all I do. Normally, I just point. On free throws, only give what's needed (again). No one is listening anyway, so there's no point in getting verbose.

2. zebraman nails it. I would add that if you see one you need to call, call it and don't worry about the other guys. Make sure it's delaying the game, though. If they just tap it and it doesn't delay, then I warn them once. Normally, it's just one player doing it so he/she tends to stop with the warning. If the first tap delays the throwin, by all means issue the official warning.

[Back In The Saddle]

1) I'm assuming "going down" means the same as "that way". Technically incorrect, but still used. Especially by "vets".

2) If possible, before I even think about a DOG warning I'm going to tell the kid to leave the ball alone first.

[grunewar]

1) I was taught to say very little when administering foul shots - bounce the ball and announce the number of shots "two." (or whatever the number). I was told not to coach - i.e, "Wait until it hits" or "watch your feet," etc. As for reporting, I was taught to report - color, number and infraction and use proper hand and arm signal. Be brief and be gone. I have never heard, "Going Down" or "Staying here" used. I used to have the habit of saying, "off blue, white" (or whatever the colors) and was told just to point and say color. I try to listen to what I am told and do what is expected in my area/association.

2) I am in the camp where I like to do preventative officiating here. "Let it alone son" or "Don't do that," especially at the younger levels and early in the year. I think I have less tolerance and give more DOG warnings as the players get older and the season gets longer - i.e., they should know better.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909

1. Why do some vets use the minimal verbal signals when administering free throws and reporting fouls, but say "Going Down" or "Staying here." on throw ins? It's very confusing for jr high especially.

2. Am I in the minority in my belief that more Delay of Game warnings and DOG technical fouls should be called for knocking the ball away after scoring a basket?

You can learn a lot by watching vets. Sometimes you learn what not to do (and why). It's a form of "do as I say, not as I do." Sometimes it's because these "vets" are working JH games for a reason (although that depends on the area and the specific person -- there are lots of exceptions).

And, I'd venture to guess that in 10 years or so, someone will be (or could be) writing a similar post after having observed one of your games. We all have bad habits.

[dsqrddgd909]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

You can learn a lot by watching vets. Sometimes you learn what not to do (and why). It's a form of "do as I say, not as I do." Sometimes it's because these "vets" are working JH games for a reason (although that depends on the area and the specific person -- there are lots of exceptions).

And, I'd venture to guess that in 10 years or so, someone will be (or could be) writing a similar post after having observed one of your games. We all have bad habits.

Bob, that's a good point. I am sometimes too quick to note deficiencies in other officials. I will try to learn from the good things I see and not focus on idiosyncracies.

[Loudwhistle]

Mark,
You must be sick or away hunting, I thought for sure you would grab onto some of the verbage at the beginning of this thread and add some humor.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909

Bob, that's a good point. I am sometimes too quick to note deficiencies in other officials. I will try to learn from the good things I see and not focus on idiosyncracies.

It is both appropriate and useful to note other officials' deficiencies when watching them work. It's what you do with those "notes" that is important.

Using those notes to trash a fellow official, is obviously bad. Using those notes as evidence in your own mind that you are better than that official, will usually prove harmful to you.

Using those notes as examples of what not to do in your game, is good. Using those notes to form your own conclusion about how good an official is, and by extension how useful incorporating parts of his or her game into yours, is also good.

So don't ignore negative observations about fellow officials, just keep them in their proper place.

One other bit of wisdom from the trenches (that you're free to consider or discard, obviously). You will sometimes see vets with terrible mechanics and horrible habits working big games. And perhaps you will wonder why. Reasons they get those games include: They have become masters of managing a game, they have been around a long time and are widely trusted, they are there to keep an eye on their younger partners and help bring them along.

Just because a "vet" lacks some of the mechanical polish you and I are working to acquire doesn't mean he or she isn't a great official. However, if you and I can become equally masterful at managing a game and as widely trusted, and we also develop great mechanics, I think eventually we'll find there is room at the top for us too.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Loudwhistle

Mark,
You must be sick or away hunting, I thought for sure you would grab onto some of the verbage at the beginning of this thread and add some humor.

In the opening thread, I saw the words "vet" and "DOG" and thought I was on a board about animals - and I don't mean the kind that coach.

[iiicream]

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909

1. Why do some vets use the minimal verbal signals when administering free throws and reporting fouls, but say "Going Down" or "Staying here." on throw ins? It's very confusing for jr high especially.

2. Am I in the minority in my belief that more Delay of Game warnings and DOG technical fouls should be called for knocking the ball away after scoring a basket?

I was evaluating a Girls JV game last night where one official used the verbage, "Going Down". On one occassion a girl stood in front of the official and just looked at him with a blank stare. She was confused on what the official meant. Communication is the key, Between partners, with the players & coaches and table personnel.

We got it corrected by the second half.

[mj]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

It is both appropriate and useful to note other officials' deficiencies when watching them work. It's what you do with those "notes" that is important.

Using those notes to trash a fellow official, is obviously bad. Using those notes as evidence in your own mind that you are better than that official, will usually prove harmful to you.

Using those notes as examples of what not to do in your game, is good. Using those notes to form your own conclusion about how good an official is, and by extension how useful incorporating parts of his or her game into yours, is also good.

So don't ignore negative observations about fellow officials, just keep them in their proper place.

One other bit of wisdom from the trenches (that you're free to consider or discard, obviously). You will sometimes see vets with terrible mechanics and horrible habits working big games. And perhaps you will wonder why. Reasons they get those games include: They have become masters of managing a game, they have been around a long time and are widely trusted, they are there to keep an eye on their younger partners and help bring them along.

Just because a "vet" lacks some of the mechanical polish you and I are working to acquire doesn't mean he or she isn't a great official. However, if you and I can become equally masterful at managing a game and as widely trusted, and we also develop great mechanics, I think eventually we'll find there is room at the top for us too.

Great point BITS. I thought of this yesterday watching a college vet doing a closely guarded count with his arm extended and using his fingers count.

Watch the vets and do what works for you...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909

"Going Down"

Originally Posted by zebraman

"going down."

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

"going down"

Originally Posted by Loudwhistle

Mark, I thought for sure you would grab onto some of the verbiage at the beginning of this thread and add some humor.

I can't believe it. Mark Padgett, and the rest of you guys, are showing a tremendous amount of restraint. Three straight lines and not a single "zinger"? I still can't believe it. Am I on the wrong website? Is this the NFHS forum?