What would you have said?

refnrev · #1 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 27, 2009, 09:03pm

Last night was working with a partner I officate with from time to time. IMO he has whistle that is a little too quick and calls things that I would let pass. This trend was noticed by one coach who mentioned it to me during the game. I agreed with the coach, but didn't respond. Near the end of 4th quarter on a fast break I was lead and the play was about 4 feet from me. There was some contact on the shot but I passed on the foul because I saw no lost advantage on the part of the shooter. To me a foul would be ticky-tack at best. All at once I hear a whistle from the back and T turns to the table and reports the foul. I shot him a "this was my area and my call" look which he clearly did not understand. After the game I mentioned it to him and he seemed oblivious to what I was talking about. I tried to convey that it might be best to let that call go when it is right beside your partner and to make good eye contact during the game. He wasn't hearing me and I let it go before he got defensive. What's the best way to bring this up?

Bad Zebra · #2 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 27, 2009, 09:27pm

Next time you work with him, make a point of bringing it up in pre-game. Be specific about coverage area and mention the rare occasion it would be appropriate to grab one out of one's area. If he persists, don't work with him again. A guy like that will drag the whole crew down with him eventually.

Adam · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 27, 2009, 10:11pm

Ask him to look up the definition of incidental contact in the rule book.

Tell him, in pregame, that your personal focus is to lay off the contact that doesn't create an advantage and ask him to help you.

Seriously, I think you did it right. With some guys there's no helping them. He might be ready in a few years, or he might not.

Is he relatively new?

Tio · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 27, 2009, 11:13pm

I think any of us who have worked long enough have worked with a "gunslinger" before. I would recommend trying to engage him about the play. Ask "What did you see on that play that resulted in the foul?" Try and put the play back on him. He may admit that he made a mistake and should have laid off. You would want to listen to the response and reply with something like "I had a great look at that play and from my angle the contact did not impede the shooter." The key is to try and get some meaningful professional dialog. But at the end of the day, there will be officials who are unreceptive and think they do everything right. Those folks tend not to move up because they can't take constructive criticism on their game and as a result, don't get better.

Back In The Saddle · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 27, 2009, 11:48pm

"My area, my play, my call. You've got your own area to watch. So watch it."

Indianaref · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 28, 2009, 07:35am

At halftime or end of game, I will whip out two-person diagram showing the PCA's.

bob jenkins · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 28, 2009, 08:02am

I have a similar story: Last night was working with a partner I officate with from time to time. IMO he has whistle that is a little too slow and fails to call things that I would. This trend was noticed by one coach who mentioned it to me during the game. I agreed with the coach, but didn't respond. Near the end of 4th quarter on a fast break he was lead and the play was about 4 feet from him. I think he was straightlined or too close because there was a lot of contact on the shot but he passed on the foul. The play opened up for me so I had to whistle and report the foul. I shot him a "you're welcome" look which he clearly did not understand. After the game I mentioned it to him and he seemed oblivious to what I was talking about. I tried to convey that it might be best to work for better angles and to not let the game get out of hand. He wasn't hearing me and I let it go before he got defensive. What's the best way to bring this up?

hoopguy · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 28, 2009, 10:00am

I was thinking the exact same thing. All in your perspective...

I have been contemplating posting an AAU rant because ALL calls are let go because there is no advantage

JRutledge · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 28, 2009, 10:45am

All you can do is talk about stuff in pre-game and go work the game. If the official is calling stuff that is considered wrong, it will come back on them later or their reputation will be affected. All you can do is work your game and hope for the best. I might only ask my partner that called in front of me, "What did you see?" Maybe they saw something you did not and then explain what you saw on that fast break play. I do not agree with Bob about the "being straight lined" issue because I do not consider those things very often on calls. I call what I see based on my angle and what my partner has an opportunity to call. You really cannot teach judgment in the first place. You either have it or you do not. Just work your game and let the chips fall where they may. Eventually if this guy is calling things in other people's areas it will not go over well after time. He will either realize this on his own or he will have to seek why he is not well respected or liked as an official. Now if he asks you what you think of his game (especially if you are the veteran) then be honest about these calls. If he does not ask, then leave it alone. Unless I am missing something, these are not varsity games, so the situation is a learning experience for him and you.

Peace

Back In The Saddle · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 28, 2009, 11:37am

My suggested retort earlier was meant to be tongue in cheek. Those who have suggested asking, "What did you see?" are more in line with what I do. In my pregame I tell my partners that I'm not territorial, and that if there's an elephant in my area to go get it before it leaves anything on the floor.

The more I have worked three person, the more aware I have become about open and closed looks, and the necessity for the "off" official to referee the play curling away from his partner. For example, a post play right in front of L that curls away from L, T is going to have the best look at that play. In three person the C is going to come and get this. In my two person games, I want the T to come and get this. Even if it's four feet in front of me.

refnrev · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 28, 2009, 11:44am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Ask him to look up the definition of incidental contact in the rule book.

Tell him, in pregame, that your personal focus is to lay off the contact that doesn't create an advantage and ask him to help you.

Seriously, I think you did it right. With some guys there's no helping them. He might be ready in a few years, or he might not.

Is he relatively new?

Yep... and my hunch he has no idea about coverage areas and is ball watching almost all game.

Amesman · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 28, 2009, 01:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by refnrev

Yep... and my hunch he has no idea about coverage areas and is ball watching almost all game.

In that case, it seems one of the clearest options has been overlooked. Since he seemed oblivious to the messages you were trying to send him, after the game, write down the URL and directions how to get to this board and then tell him, "I know some guys who like to help newer officials -- check this out tomorrow and look especially hard at the thread called, 'What would you have said?'"

It's an old Dear Abby move, God bless her little ol' in-your-face-fadeaway-jumper-nothing-but-net soul. Had a mean crossover dribble, too, as I recall.

BillyMac · #13 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 28, 2009, 04:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indianaref

At halftime or end of game, I will whip out ...

Whew. I thought that you were going to finish your statement another way.

YouTube - Classic Movie Line #34

Back In The Saddle · #14 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 28, 2009, 05:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Whew. I thought that you were going to finish your statement another way.

YouTube - Classic Movie Line #34

That's where I carry my written speech for my coaches/captains meeting.

Texas Aggie · #15 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 28, 2009, 09:04pm

There's no reason to sound like its all about you. Just say, "hey, we all need to learn to trust our partners. When there's a fast break, we need to let the guy(s) on it make the call, and the other guy(s) clean anything up behind them."

DON'T get into a lecture about "staying out of my area." That's defensive, unproductive, and in many cases, its wrong. Example: a trail moving from backcourt to front court. C is at or around division line. Trail is straight-lined or only at a small angle between ball handler and defender. Dribbler, moving fast, passes the ball off, but runs into the defender for a block charge call someone needs to make. C has the perfect angle though he may be farther away and "out" of the T's area.