What would you have said?

bob jenkins · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 28, 2009, 08:02am

I have a similar story: Last night was working with a partner I officate with from time to time. IMO he has whistle that is a little too slow and fails to call things that I would. This trend was noticed by one coach who mentioned it to me during the game. I agreed with the coach, but didn't respond. Near the end of 4th quarter on a fast break he was lead and the play was about 4 feet from him. I think he was straightlined or too close because there was a lot of contact on the shot but he passed on the foul. The play opened up for me so I had to whistle and report the foul. I shot him a "you're welcome" look which he clearly did not understand. After the game I mentioned it to him and he seemed oblivious to what I was talking about. I tried to convey that it might be best to work for better angles and to not let the game get out of hand. He wasn't hearing me and I let it go before he got defensive. What's the best way to bring this up?

hoopguy · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 28, 2009, 10:00am

I was thinking the exact same thing. All in your perspective...

I have been contemplating posting an AAU rant because ALL calls are let go because there is no advantage

JRutledge · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 28, 2009, 10:45am

All you can do is talk about stuff in pre-game and go work the game. If the official is calling stuff that is considered wrong, it will come back on them later or their reputation will be affected. All you can do is work your game and hope for the best. I might only ask my partner that called in front of me, "What did you see?" Maybe they saw something you did not and then explain what you saw on that fast break play. I do not agree with Bob about the "being straight lined" issue because I do not consider those things very often on calls. I call what I see based on my angle and what my partner has an opportunity to call. You really cannot teach judgment in the first place. You either have it or you do not. Just work your game and let the chips fall where they may. Eventually if this guy is calling things in other people's areas it will not go over well after time. He will either realize this on his own or he will have to seek why he is not well respected or liked as an official. Now if he asks you what you think of his game (especially if you are the veteran) then be honest about these calls. If he does not ask, then leave it alone. Unless I am missing something, these are not varsity games, so the situation is a learning experience for him and you.

Peace

Back In The Saddle · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 28, 2009, 11:37am

My suggested retort earlier was meant to be tongue in cheek. Those who have suggested asking, "What did you see?" are more in line with what I do. In my pregame I tell my partners that I'm not territorial, and that if there's an elephant in my area to go get it before it leaves anything on the floor.

The more I have worked three person, the more aware I have become about open and closed looks, and the necessity for the "off" official to referee the play curling away from his partner. For example, a post play right in front of L that curls away from L, T is going to have the best look at that play. In three person the C is going to come and get this. In my two person games, I want the T to come and get this. Even if it's four feet in front of me.

refnrev · #5 (**permalink**) Sat Oct 31, 2009, 11:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I have a similar story: Last night was working with a partner I officate with from time to time. IMO he has whistle that is a little too slow and fails to call things that I would. This trend was noticed by one coach who mentioned it to me during the game. I agreed with the coach, but didn't respond. Near the end of 4th quarter on a fast break he was lead and the play was about 4 feet from him. I think he was straightlined or too close because there was a lot of contact on the shot but he passed on the foul. The play opened up for me so I had to whistle and report the foul. I shot him a "you're welcome" look which he clearly did not understand. After the game I mentioned it to him and he seemed oblivious to what I was talking about. I tried to convey that it might be best to work for better angles and to not let the game get out of hand. He wasn't hearing me and I let it go before he got defensive. What's the best way to bring this up?

Bob,
Point well taken, however, this isn't an isolated event but a pattern most likely caused by inexperience and lack of knowledge. Are you suggesting to just let the problem perpetuate itself?

JRutledge · #6 (**permalink**) Sat Oct 31, 2009, 11:44am

Quote:

Originally Posted by refnrev

Bob,
Point well taken, however, this isn't an isolated event but a pattern most likely caused by inexperience and lack of knowledge. Are you suggesting to just let the problem perpetuate itself?

This is where I disagree with Bob big time. I think these situations need to be addressed if this is a constant situation. If it happens once I can live with this. But if this happens often, I cannot just let it go. Because we are obviously are not on the same page or your partner is not trusting your judgment. But as I said, sometimes these things are not easily discussed or accepted by all parties. It is very possible that the discussion might get a little contentious or defensive.

Peace

refnrev · #7 (**permalink**) Sat Oct 31, 2009, 11:49am

Or at best very uncomfortable because we aren't that good of friends or frequent partners. I just hate to see a less experienced guy make the same mistakes a lot. The AD and I were actaully talking about this a little the other night. He's now a girls HS coach, former men's college coach. and is also a licensed official. He agrees my assessment of the quick whistle and not quite distinguishing "incidental contact" from a foul.

bob jenkins · #8 (**permalink**) Sat Oct 31, 2009, 05:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This is where I disagree with Bob big time. I think these situations need to be addressed if this is a constant situation.

Nothing in the OP indicated it was a constant situation. My only point is for everyone who thinks someone else calls the game too tight, there's someone else who thinks that a game is being called too loose.

(It's like George Carlin's commentary on the idiot and maniac drivers).

JRutledge · #9 (**permalink**) Sat Oct 31, 2009, 07:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Nothing in the OP indicated it was a constant situation. My only point is for everyone who thinks someone else calls the game too tight, there's someone else who thinks that a game is being called too loose.

(It's like George Carlin's commentary on the idiot and maniac drivers).

It is not about "tight" or "loose" calls when you are calling something in someone's area.

Peace