NFHS - FT mechanic rational?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I wish the NFHS, or IAABO, would allow us to just watch one entire side, and not have us watch "fractions" of a side, and I don't care if it's the entire opposite side, like we did a few years ago, or the entire same side, like we did once upon a time, in a land far away.

Ah, Billy...that is the mechanic. Since there' no longer a player in the first space, you are now responsible for the entire opposite side.

[eyezen]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Ah, Billy...that is the mechanic. Since there' no longer a player in the first space, you are now responsible for the entire opposite side.

Not by the book its not see page 58

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by eyezen

Not by the book its not see page 58

Then possibly that's a state change, because that's what we were told at our state clinic this past week. We did not receive an Officials Manual this year.

[eyezen]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Then possibly that's a state change, because that's what we were told at our state clinic this past week. We did not receive an Officials Manual this year.

NFHS officials manual 2009-2011

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

There' no longer a player in the first space.

Yes there is. What we used to call the first marked lane space was changed last year to being called "the lane area from the end line up to, and including, the neutral-zone marks". What we used to call the second marked lane space is now called the first marked lane space.

NFHS 8-1-4: During a free throw, lane spaces may be occupied as follows:
b. The lane areas from the end line up to, and including, the neutral-zone marks, shall remain vacant.
c. The first marked lane spaces on each side of the lane, above and adjacent to the neutral-zone marks, shall be occupied by opponents of the free thrower. No teammate of the free thrower shall occupy either of these marked lane spaces.

[CallMeMrRef]

From the POE and the mechanics change, it appears that the NFHS is more concerned with being able to see the lane violation than being able to referee the rebounding action. As lead looking across the lane you are straghtlined for that rebound foul. Have no idea if player was pushed from behind or if he himself jumped forward.

I think the NCAA mechanic of same side is a better situation. Rather miss a lane violation for breaking the plane (how many of these actually get called?) than a rebounding foul. Looking at same side we can definitely see if a player actuallly stepped into the lane prior to the ball hitting the rim and that is more likely to lead to a violation call.

[Adam]

Here in CO there is a separate pay scale for 3 vs 2. The school still pays more over all for a three person game than for a two person game, but the officals will get paid slightly less.

At the JV level, it was $35 and $41 last season. At the varsity level, I believe it was $47 and $55. I'm not sure about the two person varsity as I haven't worked a two person varsity game since I left Iowa. They do have a state standard, however.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Here in CO there is a separate pay scale for 3 vs 2. The school still pays more over all for a three person game than for a two person game, but the officals will get paid slightly less.

Sounds reasonable, especially in these harsh economic times.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

You are now responsible for the entire opposite side.

2009-11 NFHS BASKETBALL OFFICIALS MANUAL
2.2.3 Free Throws:
B. Lead Official:
6. Watch the first space on the near lane line and all the spaces on the opposite lane line for violations.
C. Trail Official:
5. Observe the thrower and top two spaces on the opposite lane line for violations.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

2009-11 NFHS BASKETBALL OFFICIALS MANUAL
2.2.3 Free Throws:
B. Lead Official:
6. Watch the first space on the near lane line and all the spaces on the opposite lane line for violations.
C. Trail Official:
5. Observe the thrower and top two spaces on the opposite lane line for violations.

Please note that anything I post with regard to mechanics is based on three man mechanics, not two man mechanics

We haven't worked anything but three man for varsity games in NC in 19 years.

States still using two man need to catch up with the 21st century.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

State still using two man need to catch up with the 21st century.

To be fair, I am not sure how big your state is when it comes to population. Some of this is a financial issue, not a style issue.

Peace

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

To be fair, I am not sure how big your state is when it comes to population. Some of this is a financial issue, not a style issue.

It's nothing that couldn't be overcome with some give and take if people were truly interested in doing what's best for the game.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

It's nothing that couldn't be overcome with some give and take if people were truly interested in doing what's best for the game.

The reason I said this is because I know by population my state is bigger. There are 778 schools according to the IHSA. That means if they all play, this involves 389 games if they all play on one night (without the consideration of gender). You need 1167 different officials to work that night. Now that is not very realistic and not going to happen that way, but this means just our state has a lot of schools and it is hard to find officials to work all the games

There are not that many basketball licenses in the state of Illinois. And this is without consideration of financial situations and standards and logistics to make that happen in scheduling. And for the record, most games in Illinois are 3 Person.

Peace

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The reason I said this is because I know by population my state is bigger. There are 778 schools according to the IHSA. That means if they all play, this involves 389 games if they all play on one night (without the consideration of gender). You need 1167 different officials to work that night. Now that is not very realistic and not going to happen that way, but this means just our state has a lot of schools and it is hard to find officials to work all the games

There are not that many basketball licenses in the state of Illinois. And this is without consideration of financial situations and standards and logistics to make that happen in scheduling. And for the record, most games in Illinois are 3 Person.

Exactly. Most games in Illnois are 3 Person, which means it wouldn't be a stretch for the ISHA to require 3 Person. Games would be scheduled on different night. JV officials who are ready would be moved up faster. It actually adds a few years to each official's career.

Fiscally, there's no reason to expect an official to be paid as much to work a 3 man game as he is paid in a 2 man game. It's not physically as exerting and demanding and it makes the game easier to call. I spoke to a NY state official several years ago. He told me he made $83 for a varsity 2 man game. He said that was one of the main reasons the officials in his area wouldn't push for 3 man. I'm not saying that's true everywhere but I've heard those views expressed from others ijn similiar situations.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

States still using two man need to catch up with the 21st century.

Connecticut is certainly behind almost all other states in terms of three person games. One reason is due to economics. Even though Connecticut is one of the wealthiest states, local towns, and cities, are always arguing with the state over who is supposed to fund education. Property taxes, which are the most common method of funding local education here in Connecticut, are already through the roof. Secondly, maybe because we are one of the wealthiest states, many don't need the second income that be be obtained by officiating, and we simply don't have enough officials to cover three person games. Hell, during influenza season, we barely have enough officials to cover our Friday night games, our biggest basketball night of the week here in Connecticut. Many officials pull double duty on Friday, doing a junior varsity, varsity, doubleheader, or doing a freshman, or middle school game, in the late afternoon, and doing a junior varsity game at night.

In a simlair topic, this will be the first season, you read right, the first season, that we will be getting paid for most preseason scrimmages.