Lodged ball.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
"any object above the level of the top of the backboard"?

= Overhead equipment!

And I used a whole lot less words. But MTD Sr. would be proud of you!

[zebraman]

Typical of you Z to think this is a black and white discussion. I am asking what do you have, not whether I got the rule right or not. Or better yet, I did not say what we did or did not do.

This is a black and white situation. The rule is VERY clear about overhead equipment. And things like overhead baskets are exactly why the rule is there. Basic stuff. You can't sell AP or anything else because this one is as cut and dried as it gets.

Z

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

= Overhead equipment!

Honestly, I disagree with that. What I wrote is not equivalent to "overhead equipment". My phrase would also cover hanging banners or other decorations or even a stray bird, which are clearly not equipment. I think I've added enough words to this thread, tho. I'll recuse myself from further argument.

Chuck

[Edited by ChuckElias on Jul 17th, 2002 at 08:43 PM]

[Dan_ref]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChuckElias

... I think I've added enough words to this thread, tho. I'll recuse myself from further argument.

Chuck

No need to do that Chuck, just stop posting on it.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by zebraman
Typical of you Z to think this is a black and white discussion. I am asking what do you have, not whether I got the rule right or not. Or better yet, I did not say what we did or did not do.

This is a black and white situation. The rule is VERY clear about overhead equipment. And things like overhead baskets are exactly why the rule is there. Basic stuff. You can't sell AP or anything else because this one is as cut and dried as it gets.

Z

Zebraman, I could not have said it better. Having said that, you should know that I have now given you the kiss of death because I have agreed with you.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by zebraman
Typical of you Z to think this is a black and white discussion. I am asking what do you have, not whether I got the rule right or not. Or better yet, I did not say what we did or did not do.

This is a black and white situation. The rule is VERY clear about overhead equipment. And things like overhead baskets are exactly why the rule is there. Basic stuff. You can't sell AP or anything else because this one is as cut and dried as it gets.

Z

Whatever you say.

Peace

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

I agree. But it is not explicit on that point.

Exactly - it's not explicit.

Because it does not specify any certain types of "overhead equipment" it applies to all "overhead equipment."

If we treat this as the ball being lodged between one of the two 'official' backboards and rims, what's next? Does a team score two points if the ball goes through the hoop of a suspended basket? How will you figure out the 3-point line in 3-dimensional space?

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
My phrase would also cover hanging banners or other decorations or even a stray bird, which are clearly not equipment.

Forgive me for playing the Devil's Advocate of the Devil's Advocate . . .

Are you saying you wouldn't rule a ball which hit an overhead banner out of bounds? (Or that you would consider that the rules state this is not out of bounds?)

Guys and gals, let's remember one thing - this is basketball.

It's not arena football.

It's not indoor soccer.

It's not pool/billiards.

You're supposed to use the floor and (in some cases) the backboard to dribble and hit the ball off of (maybe a player or ref, too.) If you still don't agree that this is "overhead equipment," invoke 2-10 (along with some common sense) and call it an extension of the ceiling.

[JRutledge]

where the NF or even College for that matter goes back and makes a rules editorial revision. The issue seems obvious, but the rules do not "clearly" state what happens in this case. I know some will say that it is clear, but every year in at least one of the sports I do, they make an editorial change to close the gap or confusion in the wording. I guess you could say that the touching procedes the lodging in this case. But if there was a newer official or an official that has not seen this before, it makes for an interesting debate. That is why I posted the question. All obviously do not agree on what the "actual" ruling is.

Peace

[Mark Dexter]

The hanging backboard not OOB - I don't agree with it, but there could be an arguement for that case.

But to call an AP situation for the ball trapped between the backboard and rim?? Let's look at a few rules which dispute this.

First, 6-3-3d - you go to AP when "A live ball lodges between the backboard and ring or comes to rest on the flange, unless a free-throw or throw-in follows."

Let us, then, examine 1-8, backboard position. It states, in part that the backboards must be "midway between the sidelines," have the "plane of the front face perpendicular to the floor," and goes on to specify measurements to pinpoint the location. If we want to be hyper-technical, then a backboard suspended in the "up" position is not really a backboard, per the rules, and therefore would not apply to the qualification of 6-3-3d, thus rendering your point moot.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
"any object above the level of the top of the backboard"?

= Overhead equipment! [/QUOTE]
Honestly, I disagree with that. What I wrote is not equivalent to "overhead equipment". My phrase would also cover hanging banners or other decorations or even a stray bird, which are clearly not equipment.[/B][/QUOTE]So if you hit a bird flying above the level of the top of the backboard,it's OOB.If you hit a bird flying below the level of the top of the backboard,the ball's still in play.What's the call if it hits a bird that's flying half above/half below the level of the top of the backboard?Now that's a tough judgement call!

I'm with Z,Tony,MTD Sr.,et al.It's a simple,straight-forward call.It's been OOB since Dr. Naismith removed the wire mesh from around the court.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
It's been OOB since Dr. Naismith removed the wire mesh from around the court.

D@mn! That's why we can't keep those birds off the court!

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

In the definitions part of the rule book, is there a definition for "equipment"?

[Brian Watson]

2003-2004 POE:

Overhead Equipment...

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

D@mn! That's why we can't keep those birds off the court!

I worked an AAU game this summer in a gym that had a bird's nest way up high in the rafters. The coach told me the biggest problem was avoiding the occasional splats.