When Is It Incidental?

[cmcramer]

Player A streaks down court, looking back for a long pass from his teammate. Player B defends by standing stationary, still as a statue, 10 feet in front of A's path. Players collide in an awful crash

1) with no player possessing the ball - it's still in flight
2) with A just catching the pass and turning his head to face forward
3) with Player B just catching the pass - while holding his position on the floor - just before A arrives.

What's the call? When is this type of contact 'incidental' ?

Our Morning League thanks you!

[Adam]

1: screening rules apply. contact may be severe and still be incidental. Assuming you have a crash where both players fall, you may need to call the foul; but by rule you would be justified in letting it go.
2: guarding rules apply, PC foul on A.
3. guarding rules apply, pushing/charging foul on the new defender, A.

Originally Posted by cmcramer

Players collide in an awful crash

1) with no player possessing the ball - it's still in flight
2) with A just catching the pass and turning his head to face forward
3) with Player B just catching the pass - while holding his position on the floor - just before A arrives.

What's the call?

If were talking HS, the way you describe it I'd go:

1. TC
2. PC (POE this year)
3. Foul on A

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by cmcramer

Player A streaks down court, looking back for a long pass from his teammate. Player B defends by standing stationary, still as a statue, 10 feet in front of A's path. Players collide in an awful crash

1) with no player possessing the ball - it's still in flight
2) with A just catching the pass and turning his head to face forward
3) with Player B just catching the pass - while holding his position on the floor - just before A arrives.

What's the call? When is this type of contact 'incidental' ?

Our Morning League thanks you!

I'm going to have a foul on A in all of those situations. However, if it's just pick-up ball then we will have:

1) no call
2) check ball, A takes it out
3) foul on A

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I'm going to have a foul on A in all of those situations. However, if it's just pick-up ball then we will have:

1) no call
2) check ball, A takes it out
3) foul on A

How about no call on all? After all, these thugs want to wreck their bodies!

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I'm going to have a foul on A in all of those situations. However, if it's just pick-up ball then we will have:

1) no call
2) check ball, A takes it out
3) foul on A

BadNewsRef:

Regarding Situation #1, you might want to go to either the NFHS, NCAA, or FIBA rules books and read the defintions for guarding and screening and please apply them to this situation; you just might want to change your "no call" to a common foul (team control) by A1 against B1. In fact I am sure you will change your call.

MTD, Sr.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

BadNewsRef:

Regarding Situation #1, you might want to go to either the NFHS, NCAA, or FIBA rules books and read the defintions for guarding and screening and please apply them to this situation; you just might want to change your "no call" to a common foul (team control) by A1 against B1. In fact I am sure you will change your call.

MTD, Sr.

Mark, what if A1 makes every effort to stop upon contact with B1? Would this not qualify as a blind screen?

[eg-italy]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Mark, what if A1 makes every effort to stop upon contact with B1? Would this not qualify as a blind screen?

Ten feet away? I'd say no. That's 3.05 meters!

How do I know without asking a calculator?

Ciao

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Mark, what if A1 makes every effort to stop upon contact with B1? Would this not qualify as a blind screen?

No. The player is running forward. It is his fault that his head is turned in another direction. The screen is not set BEHIND the moving player.

Remember that screens in the front or to the side of a player are BY RULE defined as being within that player's field of vision, whether or not he can actually see the screener. He is expected to look for the screener.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Mark, what if A1 makes every effort to stop upon contact with B1? Would this not qualify as a blind screen?

No, because B1 had obtained (NFHS)/established (NCAA/FIBA) a legal guarding position against A1.

MTD, Sr.

[BillyMac]

10.6.1 SITUATION A: B1 takes a certain spot on the court before A1 jumps in the air to catch a pass: (a) A1 lands on B1; or (b) B1 moves to a new spot while A1 is airborne. A1 lands on one foot and then charges into B1. RULING: In (a) and (b), the foul is on A1. (4-23-5d)

10.6.11 SITUATION D: A1 is running toward A’s goal but is looking back to receive a pass. B1 takes a position in the path of A1 while A1 is 10 feet away from B1. (a) A1 runs into B1 before receiving the ball; or (b) A1 receives the ball and before taking a step contacts B1. RULING: In both (a) and (b), A1 is responsible for contact. In (a), B1’s position is legal if A1 has been given two strides prior to contact. In (b), since the position of B1 is legal when A1 has the ball, the contact is charging by A1. (4-40)

[Nevadaref]

While it is for a stationary opponent, the following rule defines the front or side of a player as being within the visual field.

4-40-3 . . . When screening a stationary opponent from the front or side (within the visual field), the screener may be anywhere short of contact.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

No, because B1 had obtained (NFHS)/established (NCAA/FIBA) a legal guarding position against A1.

MTD, Sr.

I accept Nevada's explanation with regard to visual field. In the first scenario, however, LGP isn't an issue because A1 does not have the ball.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I accept Nevada's explanation with regard to visual field. In the first scenario, however, LGP isn't an issue because A1 does not have the ball.

Don't forget that guarding can occur on an opponent without the ball too.
Basically, the same requirements apply as a screening situation. I quoted the screening rules before because the visual field concept comes from those and that is what you inquired about.

4-23-5 . . . Guarding a moving opponent without the ball:
a. Time and distance are factors required to obtain an initial legal position.
b. The guard must give the opponent the time and/or distance to avoid
contact.
c. The distance need not be more than two strides.
d. If the opponent is airborne, the guard must have obtained legal position
before the opponent left the floor.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

BadNewsRef:

Regarding Situation #1, you might want to go to either the NFHS, NCAA, or FIBA rules books and read the defintions for guarding and screening and please apply them to this situation; you just might want to change your "no call" to a common foul (team control) by A1 against B1. In fact I am sure you will change your call.

MTD, Sr.

Mark, I think your reading skills are deteriorating

Those numbered responses I gave applied to "pick-up" basketball. My initial sentence stated I would call a foul on "A" in each situation.