Continuation Rule

rainmaker · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 03, 2002, 12:16am

Had two coaches question me last week about the continuous motion rule. First coach was quite argumentative during the game, but I whipped out my books after the game, and showed him both rule book and case book references. Next night, he questioned Padgett about it, without telling him why. Fortunately, what Padgett said exactly backed me up.

Second coach was also quite argumentative about it, but backed right down when I cited reference numbers. My partner came into the conversation (coach had called a TO to discuss this!), and explained that the rule had been changed about 5 years ago. This seemd to satisfy the coach. I asked partner later if this was true and he said, Nah, he just made it up.

It just seemd funny that in one week it would come up twice, wneh I have never had any questions before.

By the way, can someone with the PhD in Basketball Rule History, give a brief overview of this thread of rules, just for background...

JRutledge · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 03, 2002, 12:51am

Where they saying there was no such thing at HS and just at the NBA?

Or were they saying something was not directly related to the rule?

Basically what were they claiming?

Peace

Kelvin green · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 03, 2002, 12:53am

Here's my two cents...

Continuation/Continuous motion will always be argued by a coach because WE have too many officials who dont understand the rule, and call the play on the "floor". Had a partner last week, that every drive he had he would not give them the shot... That being said

I dont think I would pull out a rule book and show a coach, generally you'll lose in that proposition.

Tell them Continuous motion always starts with the motion that ordianrily precedes or starts a try, If they dont like it, it's a judgement call, they can whine, we can T,

They dont want to admith NF/NCAA? and NBA are close on this rule...

ChuckElias · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 03, 2002, 08:25am

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
My partner came into the conversation (coach had called a TO to discuss this!), and explained that the rule had been changed about 5 years ago.

I can't remember the rules on continuous motion having changed, and I've been officiating for 10 years now. What supposed change was he referring to? Maybe he was just trying to placate the coach.

Quote:

Originally posted by Kelvin
They dont want to admith NF/NCAA? and NBA are close on this rule...

Not only are they close, but they're almost identical in wording. It wasn't me, but I remember not too long ago somebody (it may have been TH) posted the Fed rule and then cut/pasted the NBA rule from their website. They're virtually identical. The only thing necessary for the continuation rule to apply is the beginning of the "habitual motion" that precedes a shot.

Chuck

AK ref SE · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 03, 2002, 11:52am

I'll add another couple cents to this (besides Kelvin Green's two cents). We as officials are not consistent on how we call it, I mean between us. Coach's see it called one way then another, then again coach's are good at working us also. I think another thing that can get it a little more confusing for the coach's is, if we had a delayed whistle, watching the play develop......we blow the whistle on one call a split second later, then saying "on the floor" because we had the call before the "Habitual motion" then the next time down the floor we have it on the shot?
Just my two more cents! Do I hear a nickel!!!!!

AK ref SE

Mark Padgett · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 03, 2002, 12:26pm

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
Next night, he questioned Padgett about it, without telling him why. Fortunately, what Padgett said exactly backed me up.

Then you must have been right.

rainmaker · #7 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 04, 2002, 11:49am

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
Where they saying there was no such thing at HS and just at the NBA?

Or were they saying something was not directly related to the rule?

Basically what were they claiming?

Peace

He thought the foul was on the floor not on the shot, as you suspected.

Normally, I wouldn't drag out the books, but I felt in this case that it was appropriate, since I had worked in his gym a number of tiems, and he had filled in with me once or twice when my partner didn't show up.

The partner that said the rule had changed five years ago, admitted to me later that he just made that up. Man, he was a good liar, he had me fooled too! Remind me not to call him to replace me -- how could I believe him when he says he'll do it for sure

?

Jeremy Hohn · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Jul 05, 2002, 10:20pm

..when we as officials don't grant 2 shots on attempts just because the player didn't leave the floor on the attempt. If you look at the NF rulebook, a try is defined as any motion of the body in the start of an attempt should be ruled 2 shots. Too many times we are not giving 2 shots when we should. Also, coaches get in arguments with me saying that "this isn't the NBA" and crap like that especially in AAU summer league which I am going to tomorrow. I tell them to read the rule book, but it would help if we all would get on the same page.........

Hawks Coach · #9 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 11, 2002, 12:43pm

Just two weeks agao at a tournament, a fellow coach and I were watching games and saw a couple of very clear shooting fouls that were called on the floor. We were in a facility where you could only stand on the baseline and had good views of each play. The team in question consistently erred on the side of the foul being on the floor rather than shooting.

We both felt that this is one of the most inconsistently enforced rules on the books, and many officials will only call it a shooting foul if the player is in the act of releasing the ball. I really work with my players on taking the ball strong to the hoop, and it drives you crazy when an officiating team calls everything up to the release of the shot as on the floor. Some even wave off good baskets?! I wish that this would be a POE (rather than coaching boxes

).

rcwilco · #10 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 11, 2002, 05:42pm

Coach,
I just finished a camp here in Ellensburg,Washington and during one game I called a shooting foul. The player was obviously in motion to the hoop and the defense grabbed his arm preventing his going up and releaseing the ball. The coach asked me how it could be a shooting foul and so I told him. His reply to me was "Learn the rule, he must be making the shot, what is this motion crap?". Oh well!!!!!!

Hawks Coach · #11 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 11, 2002, 06:22pm

Never claimed that coaches know the rules. I had a player closely guarded, she knows the rule, picked up her dribble after about 4 seconds, began looking to pass, and the opponents coach begins screaming for a 5 second count. He then calls timeout and discusses it with the officials. He told me afterward that the ref told him that once the dribble was picked up, the count started over at 1. When I said "yeah," he was incredulous, and admitted he didn't know that was how the rule read. Lack of a rulebook cost him a TO!

Ralph Stubenthal · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 24, 2002, 06:43pm

Quote:

Originally posted by rcwilco
Coach,
I just finished a camp here in Ellensburg,Washington and during one game I called a shooting foul. The player was obviously in motion to the hoop and the defense grabbed his arm preventing his going up and releaseing the ball. The coach asked me how it could be a shooting foul and so I told him. His reply to me was "Learn the rule, he must be making the shot, what is this motion crap?". Oh well!!!!!!

rcwilco, I noticed that you are from Ellensburg, Washington. I have a good friend here in South Texas that is a Catholic priest from Ellensburg. He has told me that it is a relatively small town so maybe you know him, Fr. Jim Kelleher. I think his mother has a Ford dealership there. He is the president of a college in Corpus Christi, TX.