Pass to Head to Hoop

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Except that you're still assuming a definition for "thrown ball". When does it cease to be a "thrown ball"? My claim all along is that it is no longer a thrown ball when B bats the ball into in a new direction such that it goes into the goal. That is a new and independant act that changes everything.

While I understand your interpretation, can you duplicate that logic elsewhere in the rules? For example, we know that a deflected shot continues to be a shot after the deflection. What about team control? A deflection isn't "an independent act that changes everything"; there continues to be team control after the deflection. How about a pass? If A1 passes the ball to A2, does the pass "end" if B1 deflects it, even though A2 ended up with the ball? Btw, there is a definition of "Pass" (4-31), and it also includes that pesky word, "throws".

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

While I understand your interpretation, can you duplicate that logic elsewhere in the rules? For example, we know that a deflected shot continues to be a shot after the deflection. What about team control? A deflection isn't "an independent act that changes everything"; there continues to be team control after the deflection. How about a pass? If A1 passes the ball to A2, does the pass "end" if B1 deflects it, even though A2 ended up with the ball? Btw, there is a definition of "Pass" (4-31), and it also includes that pesky word, "throws".

How about this one:

SECTION 20 FREE THROW

ART. 3 . . . The free throw ends when the try is successful, when it is certain the try will not be successful, when the ball touches the floor or any player, or when the ball becomes dead.

or this one:

SECTION 40 SHOOTING, TRY, TAP

ART. 4 . . . The try ends when the throw is successful, when it is certain the throw is unsuccessful or when the thrown ball touches the floor or when the ball becomes dead.

The deflected shot only continues to be a shot until it is certain that it will not be successful. It doesn't not require that it touch the floor, a teammate or be controlled by an opponent.

[M&M Guy]

Exactly. But not on the deflection, correct? The deflection alone is not the "new and independent act that changes everything". That was the point I was addressing.

But you continue to compare the throw with a try, where the word throw is also used in the definition of "pass". Can you use the same criteria to determine when a pass ends?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Exactly. But not on the deflection, correct? The deflection alone is not the "new and independent act that changes everything". That was the point I was addressing.

It can be.

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

But you continue to compare the throw with a try, where the word throw is also used in the definition of "pass". Can you use the same criteria to determine when a pass ends?

Yes. Just because A1 wanted the pass to go to A2 doesn't mean anything. When it is touched/batted by B2, doesn't that also satisfy the definition of a pass? What if it never makes it to A2 but B3 picks it up? When did it end? A1's pass ends when it touches any other player.