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-   -   Signal the '3' then wave it off...... (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/52230-signal-3-then-wave-off.html)

Kelvin green Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:41am

My opinion waiting to mark the three until he comes back to the floor is going to be way late and cause more problems than waiting

The kid gets fouled and you have not marked it as a three, you are going to have a hard time selling something. (If he is back on the floor; he no longer is in shooting motion)...

I signal the three as he is going up (signals that he is in act of shooting) so if he gets foued, it's easy to know it was a three...

In this play (no sound) why does the official administering the FT take so long to put ball in play? it also looks like he put his whistle in his mouth and turned head and blew it... Was this after a TO and does IN do the whistle mechanic on FT's?

JRutledge Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:44am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelvin green (Post 587961)
My opinion waiting to mark the three until he comes back to the floor is going to be way late and cause more problems than waiting

The kid gets fouled and you have not marked it as a three, you are going to have a hard time selling something. (If he is back on the floor; he no longer is in shooting motion)...

I signal the three as he is going up (signals that he is in act of shooting) so if he gets foued, it's easy to know it was a three...

This is exactly why I signal when I do. This is a great point about the fouled shooter and not waiting until the player hits the floor.

Peace

GoodwillRef Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:54am

I signal the three as he is going up (signals that he is in act of shooting) so if he gets foued, it's easy to know it was a three...

What signal marks that he is in the act of shooting when it is a two point shot?

This is just a "tool" I like to use to make sure I stay with the shooter and not track the flight of the ball on a three point shot. You would be surprised how long the player isn't in the air and remember the ball has to travel at least 19'9".

IMO we miss a lot more fouls on three point shooters than we do player shooting two point shots.

just another ref Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:59am

Better to mark the three and then have it not turn out to be a shot than fail to mark the three..............and then forget.

GoodwillRef Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 588006)
Better to mark the three and then have it not turn out to be a shot than fail to mark the three..............and then forget.

No one said that we failed to mark or forgot to mark a three pointer...I worked 90 games this year and never had a problem with waiting to mark the three until the shooter came back down...the shooter isn't in the air for 5 seconds./

JRutledge Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef (Post 588003)
IMO we miss a lot more fouls on three point shooters than we do player shooting two point shots.

I agree with this statement, but it is not missed in my opinion because you give or do not give a signal. Actually, since the Center and the Trail are to signal the good basket, my signal is to let my partner know I have an attempt so they can mirror. I do not take my eye off the shooter if that player is in my area whether there is a two point shot or three point shot. I guess I do not understand what a signal has to do with following the shooter. You can chew bubble gum and walk at the same time right. :D

Peace

GoodwillRef Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 588019)
I agree with this statement, but it is not missed in my opinion because you give or do not give a signal. Actually, since the Center and the Trail are to signal the good basket, my signal is to let my partner know I have an attempt so they can mirror. I do not take my eye off the shooter if that player is in my area whether there is a two point shot or three point shot. I guess I do not understand what a signal has to do with following the shooter. You can chew bubble gum and walk at the same time right. :D

Peace

It just has been my observations for whatever reason that we have a lot of officials that take theirs eyes off a airborne three point shooter to follow the ball and it seems to me as soon as they raise the arm to mark the three point shoot their eyes go right to the ball.

JRutledge Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef (Post 588023)
It just has been my observations for whatever reason that we have a lot of officials that take theirs eyes off a airborne three point shooter to follow the ball and it seems to me as soon as they raise the arm to mark the three point shoot their eyes go right to the ball.

I agree but it has nothing to do with a signal. I signal and stay with the shooter. If the shooter is not threatened, I go with the ball. Again after doing 3 Person Mechanics almost exclusively for over 10 years, I have learned that my partners can follow the ball and I do not have to worry about the ball in this situation.

And the signal has nothing to do with a successful basket. So I do not see how in any way someone is confused. What would you suggest the officials that do not have the last second shot to do? Do you not want them to signal even if the shoot would not be successful too?

Peace

GoodwillRef Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 588030)
I agree but it has nothing to do with a signal. I signal and stay with the shooter. If the shooter is not threatened, I go with the ball. Again after doing 3 Person Mechanics almost exclusively for over 10 years, I have learned that my partners can follow the ball and I do not have to worry about the ball in this situation.

And the signal has nothing to do with a successful basket. So I do not see how in any way someone is confused. What would you suggest the officials that do not have the last second shot to do? Do you not want them to signal even if the shoot would not be successful too?

Peace

JRut,

I agree with you I am just expressing what I have seen over the years and what helps me focus on this play.

JRutledge Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef (Post 588033)
JRut,

I agree with you I am just expressing what I have seen over the years and what helps me focus on this play.

I understand all of that. Just understand that many people do not do what you do and accomplish the same thing on these plays. I am just one example, but I see officials do what I have suggested all the time. I have never seen anyone suggest this practice (that we observed) was ever wrong or out of place.

Peace

GoodwillRef Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 588036)
I understand all of that. Just understand that many people do not do what you do and accomplish the same thing on these plays. I am just one example, but I see officials do what I have suggested all the time. I have never seen anyone suggest this practice (that we observed) was ever wrong or out of place.

Peace

Totally agree...we all have little quirks in our games that make us successful but may not be for everyone.

just another ref Fri Mar 13, 2009 01:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef (Post 588011)
No one said that we failed to mark or forgot to mark a three pointer...I worked 90 games this year and never had a problem with waiting to mark the three until the shooter came back down...the shooter isn't in the air for 5 seconds./

The point was that marking a three isn't a big problem, no matter what does or does not happen afterward.

In the OP: His feet are behind the line. Never mind.

GoodwillRef Fri Mar 13, 2009 01:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 588055)
The point was that marking a three isn't a big problem, no matter what does or does not happen afterward.

In the OP: His feet are behind the line. Never mind.

Post evolved to why he was marking the three and then waved off the shot and then like most post do they go in about 10 different directions.

Raymond Fri Mar 13, 2009 02:06pm

During the normal course of the game I mark the 3 when the player alights from behind the 3-point line. However, in last second shot situation where I have clock responsibilities I make it a practice to mark the 3 only if the shot is released in time, otherwise I'm immediately waving it off.

ma_ref Fri Mar 13, 2009 02:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 588083)
During the normal course of the game I mark the 3 when the player alights from behind the 3-point line. However, in last second shot situation where I have clock responsibilities I make it a practice to mark the 3 only if the shot is released in time, otherwise I'm immediately waving it off.

Agree. If I'm on clock duty, there's no way on Earth I'm signaling the attempt at the end of a quarter/game when it's not going to count anyway. The half second delay I take to debate released-in-time/didn't-release-in-time through my mind is going to cause waaaaaay less of a headache than if I signal a 3 and then wave it off like the official in the OP video.


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