Signal the '3' then wave it off......
 

What do you think??

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Hard to tell without a clock or horn on the video.

It doesn't look great to mark the three then call off the shot, but he started waving it off before it went in, so it's not horrible.

Judging by the light, though, he seems to have missed the call. I know the light doesn't matter in HS ball, I'm only using it as a gauge since the sound is not there.

NO SHOT!!!!!!

Travel on the bunny hop after gaining possession before shot...

I agree that using the light is acceptable with no sound. One of the comments in the YouTube page is that you can't end the game on a travel. I tend to agree - some amount of time will be on the clock - unless of course it occurs so close to 0:00.0 that no official sees greater than 0:00.0.

Not horrible, but not correct either.

Whaa???

So, in other words, you can end the game on a travel.

just a lil bunny hop:).. yeah without the audio hard to tell.

Or a kicked ball, or an OB situation, or an BC violation, or a .........

I don't think the camera gives us enough of an angle to make the travel call on this. If he catches on one foot, he's moving so he can jump off that foot and land on two (jump stop). In that case, it's legal.

I think you should not do that, but it is hardly any kind of travesty or anything.

I do not see the problem. The signal for the shot is about where he is leaving the floor to shoot the shot. If the player does not get the shot off, then you waive it off. The two signals are not one in the same or they are not directly related. You are not counting the basket, then waiving off the shot.

Peace

I disagree with this logic, especially when both signals come from the same official.

I never signal a three-point attempt until the ball has been released from the shooters' hands. Because an attempt is not an attempt unless it is released before the buzzer, the covering official knows for certain that if successful, the goal will count. If it won't count, there is no need to signal that the shot was from outside some curve on the court, as it this shot contains no information that is useful to someone.

I will never be seen signalling a 3-point attempt, only to waive off the shot because it came after the clock buzzed.

Well that is you and that is fine with me. I am just saying that I am looking at the feet when they alight for the floor. I rarely see players shoot the ball when they are jumping from behind the line. The shot going off has nothing to do with the signal. All you are signaling is the attempt, you are not signaling a counted basket.

If anything this is a very rare situation in the first place and not at all a big deal. It is not unusual to see people here get all worried about a situation that in real life I have never heard anyone complain about.

Peace

The Center official "marks" the three point shot as soon as the player's feet leave the floor (the ball is still in his hands)...I like to wait until the player has returned to the floor to "mark" the three point attempt...this helps me bring the shooter back to the floor safely. It also eliminated "marking" a three point attempt and then have the shooter pass the ball.

My opinion waiting to mark the three until he comes back to the floor is going to be way late and cause more problems than waiting

The kid gets fouled and you have not marked it as a three, you are going to have a hard time selling something. (If he is back on the floor; he no longer is in shooting motion)...

I signal the three as he is going up (signals that he is in act of shooting) so if he gets foued, it's easy to know it was a three...

In this play (no sound) why does the official administering the FT take so long to put ball in play? it also looks like he put his whistle in his mouth and turned head and blew it... Was this after a TO and does IN do the whistle mechanic on FT's?

This is exactly why I signal when I do. This is a great point about the fouled shooter and not waiting until the player hits the floor.

Peace

I signal the three as he is going up (signals that he is in act of shooting) so if he gets foued, it's easy to know it was a three...

What signal marks that he is in the act of shooting when it is a two point shot?

This is just a "tool" I like to use to make sure I stay with the shooter and not track the flight of the ball on a three point shot. You would be surprised how long the player isn't in the air and remember the ball has to travel at least 19'9".

IMO we miss a lot more fouls on three point shooters than we do player shooting two point shots.

Better to mark the three and then have it not turn out to be a shot than fail to mark the three..............and then forget.

No one said that we failed to mark or forgot to mark a three pointer...I worked 90 games this year and never had a problem with waiting to mark the three until the shooter came back down...the shooter isn't in the air for 5 seconds./

I agree with this statement, but it is not missed in my opinion because you give or do not give a signal. Actually, since the Center and the Trail are to signal the good basket, my signal is to let my partner know I have an attempt so they can mirror. I do not take my eye off the shooter if that player is in my area whether there is a two point shot or three point shot. I guess I do not understand what a signal has to do with following the shooter. You can chew bubble gum and walk at the same time right. :D

Peace

It just has been my observations for whatever reason that we have a lot of officials that take theirs eyes off a airborne three point shooter to follow the ball and it seems to me as soon as they raise the arm to mark the three point shoot their eyes go right to the ball.

I agree but it has nothing to do with a signal. I signal and stay with the shooter. If the shooter is not threatened, I go with the ball. Again after doing 3 Person Mechanics almost exclusively for over 10 years, I have learned that my partners can follow the ball and I do not have to worry about the ball in this situation.

And the signal has nothing to do with a successful basket. So I do not see how in any way someone is confused. What would you suggest the officials that do not have the last second shot to do? Do you not want them to signal even if the shoot would not be successful too?

Peace

JRut,

I agree with you I am just expressing what I have seen over the years and what helps me focus on this play.

I understand all of that. Just understand that many people do not do what you do and accomplish the same thing on these plays. I am just one example, but I see officials do what I have suggested all the time. I have never seen anyone suggest this practice (that we observed) was ever wrong or out of place.

Peace

Totally agree...we all have little quirks in our games that make us successful but may not be for everyone.

The point was that marking a three isn't a big problem, no matter what does or does not happen afterward.

In the OP: His feet are behind the line. Never mind.

Post evolved to why he was marking the three and then waved off the shot and then like most post do they go in about 10 different directions.

During the normal course of the game I mark the 3 when the player alights from behind the 3-point line. However, in last second shot situation where I have clock responsibilities I make it a practice to mark the 3 only if the shot is released in time, otherwise I'm immediately waving it off.

Agree. If I'm on clock duty, there's no way on Earth I'm signaling the attempt at the end of a quarter/game when it's not going to count anyway. The half second delay I take to debate released-in-time/didn't-release-in-time through my mind is going to cause waaaaaay less of a headache than if I signal a 3 and then wave it off like the official in the OP video.

Agreed, and more often than not, a last second three attempt is taken in desparation and well beyond the line, so it's obviously a three attempt which wouldn't require a quick mark.

Obviously?

I would not go that far. For one thing all games do not need a 3 point shot to end the game if the game is close. And if the foot is on the line that needs to be clarified some way.

Peace

If it's well beyond the line, it is unlikely that a foot would be on the line.

http://www.runemasterstudios.com/gra...ages/think.gif

Hmmmmmm, I was not referring only to his example. This conversation was about a concept, not a specific statement/reference/example.

Thanks for playing. ;)

Peace

I agree with this. If you don't have the "3" up when the kid gets fouled, it's going to be harder (though obviously not impossible) to convince anyone that it should be 3 free throws.

The whole point of signals and mechanics is to help us communicate better. This seems to me to be a good example of communicating early, so there's no surprises when the call is actually made.

As you say, going up with the ball a good deal of the time will result in a shot, but not always...I've seen many times kids go up for what should be a shot, then see the nearby defender and dish it off at the last second to a teammate, thinking the shot will be blocked. If they're still fouled during the pass, then it's not in the act of shooting, and they only get FTs if their team is in the bonus. So now if you've got your 3 signal while he was going up, you've got to explain to the offensive team why you've signaled 3 points, yet they're not getting any FTs (unless in bonus, in which case you explain why it's 1 and 1 or 2, instead of 3). This is why, getting back to my previous assertions, I think you hold off on the 3 signal until the ball is released, and by then you know if the horn has gone off and whether or not the ball was released in time. If they get the ball off in time, go up with your signal. If not, then no 3 signal, and wave everything off...

And it's not going to be "way late" for returning to the floor. These kids don't have Jordan-esque hang time. After they release their shot at the top of their jump, you've got maybe a half-second or so before they return to the floor.

Did this in a game, my P told me that was the best 3 point pass he has ever seen. We both laughed and I learned from it.:)

What did you learn? :confused:

That raising your arm as soon as the player jumps, you'll be signalling many 3 point passes.

"Act of shooting" and "try for goal" are different concepts, at least in the NCAA and FIBA rules (I guess the distinction is also in NFHS rules). The signal is for a "three point try for goal" which begins when the ball leaves the player's hands, not when the act of shooting starts.

Ciao

And this is a bad thing why?

BTW, I have been doing it this way; I might go 10 or 20 games before that even happens. What does happen more often is contact almost immediately after a player goes airborne or some contact afterwards. I do not see what is so wrong if a player mid-jump decides to change their mind.

Huh? What does is this supposed to mean or have anything to do with this conversation?

Peace

This is absolutely not true in NCAA or NFHS. The try for goal begins when the "habitual motion" preceding the release begins.

As I and others have pointed out, if you put up the signal at the beginning of the trying motion (that is, when he jumps from beyond the arc), you're telling everyone that you're awarding 3 free throws if he's fouled. The ball doesn't have to be released to award the 3 free throws. If the player passes the ball instead of shooting it, then you simply put down the signal. I don't see the problem with this, personally.

It seems there is simply a difference of opinion on whether this is a reasonable thing to communicate. The fact that I might signal a "3-point pass" doesn't seem to be a good enough reason not to put up the signal when the trying motion begins.

Jeesh!!!
 

Hey Scrapper, I guess all I meant was that I learned that I should slow down a bit. Be sure of what I am signaling before I signal it, that's all.