Delay to return, twice in 2 nights!

[WreckRef]

Sorry, I don't have my rule book with me but I think it's somewhere in 10 under Fouls and Penalties, Player Technical. It says something to the effect of, "A player may not deceitfully and/or intentionally delay to return after being out of bounds legally."

For the first time in 10 years, I had a technical foul for a delay to return to the court by the inbounder. The next night (last night) I had it again. Was there a full moon the last 2 nights?

The second call it was during OT (I'm sure Mark is shaking his head right now) in a boys high school rec game. A1 inbounds the ball on the end line, 6 feet to the right of the key. He then slowly jogs from there all the way to the far 3 point line before he gets back inbounds. I hit the whistle and call the technical foul. I don't know if it was a designed play but it looked like they were swinging the ball around to get it to him for a 3 point shot.

When I explained the rule to the coach he said, "You're going to call that NOW???!!?!" I asked him, "Well, what other rules do you want me to set aside since it's over time?" At least he agreed with me that my logic made sense as to why it needed to be called.

[26 Year Gap]

I firmly believe this is happening more and more and the penalty needs to be revised to be a violation.

[WreckRef]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

I firmly believe this is happening more and more and the penalty needs to be revised to be a violation.

I agree 100% that this needs to change to a violation. When I explained the rule to the coach he said, "That can't be the penalty!!" I told him that unfortunately it was. After the game we talked about the incident (his team ended up winning) and I told him I thought it was too severe and should be changed to just a violation, just like excessive swinging of the elbows without contact was changed a couple of years ago.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

I firmly believe this is happening more and more and the penalty needs to be revised to be a violation.

I think the two parts of your claim are in tension with each other. Because it's more common, the severer penalty needs to remain.

What needs to change, if anything, is officials' resistance to enforcing the rule. I think this resistance is rooted in a general resistance to calling T's. At least, that's what I observe in my area.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I think the two parts of your claim are in tension with each other. Because it's more common, the severer penalty needs to remain.

What needs to change, if anything, is officials' resistance to enforcing the rule. I think this resistance is rooted in a general resistance to calling T's. At least, that's what I observe in my area.

I liken it to the change 5 years ago for unauthorized leaving the court. The penalty was a T and this was rarely, if ever, called. {I know one guy who called it once.}
Once the penalty became a violation, it was called more frequently. I believe the same would happen with this rule. How many of us have observed the delay and NOT called the T? I will be honest and say that I have observed it numerous times and have not had the stones to call it. But, I can also say, that in all of the games I have observed or worked in the past 6 years, I have never seen anyone else call it either. The severity of the delays is getting worse by the year, too. I might even call it next season. The 'might' will turn to a 'will' if the penalty changes.

[WreckRef]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I think this resistance is rooted in a general resistance to calling T's. At least, that's what I observe in my area.

Agreed. Just like nobody wanted to call the excessive swinging of elbows without contact T. Since it was changed to a violation it seems like it is called much more.

[Old_School]

Originally Posted by WreckRef

Agreed. Just like nobody wanted to call the excessive swinging of elbows with contact T. Since it was changed to a violation it seems like it is called much more.

Excessive swinging of elbows with contact was NEVER a technical foul under NFHS rules.

Excessive swinging of elbows with contact was a personal foul of some type- player control, intentional or flagrant. Excessive swinging of elbows without contact was a technical foul.

[SAK]

I disagree, I think that it should be a T for a player who deceitfully delays his return to the court. My reasoning is that he did this intentionally.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by SAK

I disagree, I think that it should be a T for a player who deceitfully delays his return to the court. My reasoning is that he did this intentionally.

Maybe, but going OOB to avoid a defender should be penalized the same. It's not consistent. I'm all for calling a T when it's deceitful. But I think running around the basket and coming in 20 feet from where you went out should be a simple violation.

Also, 99% of players and coaches don't know this is illegal.

[WreckRef]

Originally Posted by Old_School

Excessive swinging of elbows with contact was NEVER a technical foul under NFHS rules.

Excessive swinging of elbows with contact was a personal foul of some type- player control, intentional or flagrant. Excessive swinging of elbows without contact was a technical foul.

Sorry, it was supposed to say WITHOUT contact. Yes, I know without contact was never a T. if you look at an earlier post in this thread you will see where I said without contact. I will fix the 2nd post now.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

I firmly believe this is happening more and more and the penalty needs to be revised to be a violation.

Agreed.

Also in the rarely called category, and for the first time in my career, I called the T for slapping the ball out of the inbounders hands after a basket. A1 told me to read the rules.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Agreed.

Also in the rarely called category, and for the first time in my career, I called the T for slapping the ball out of the inbounders hands after a basket. A1 told me to read the rules.

Wow. Did A1 take a seat after that?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

Wow. Did A1 take a seat after that?

No; he became kool. Things were good until I later gave one player 3 T's later in the first half. He went off on a swearing tirade, and with children in the gym. My P is this Austrian import who does well, but doesn't quite get the differences from FIBA --> Fed philosophies.

Yes, it was men's league.

[SAK]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Maybe, but going OOB to avoid a defender should be penalized the same. It's not consistent. I'm all for calling a T when it's deceitful. But I think running around the basket and coming in 20 feet from where you went out should be a simple violation.

Also, 99% of players and coaches don't know this is illegal.

I cannot totally disagree with you here.

[WreckRef]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Agreed.

Also in the rarely called category, and for the first time in my career, I called the T for slapping the ball out of the inbounders hands after a basket. A1 told me to read the rules.

You should have asked to borrow his copy of the rulebook.