Short of time? Draw a foul!

[Nevadaref]

Anyone see the very smart play run by the womens' team from Western Carolina against College of Charleston with only 1.8 seconds remaining in OT?

C of C had just taken a two point lead by making a basket. WC had the right to run the end line, but with only 1.8 seconds left they probably didn't have enough time to advance the ball far enough down the court to get a decent shot. Therefore, they pulled a fast one on the opponent.

They ran the play that we've discussed before on here to draw a foul. C of C assigned a defender to guard and follow the thrower. The thrower takes the ball OOB and runs from one side of the basket to towards the other. Another WC player runs in and sets a screen in the area of the court under the basket. As the defender is looking at the thrower and following her across the court, she does not see the screener and runs her over. They got the foul call from an official, made the 2FTs at the other end and forced a 2nd OT. In fact, the game went 3OTs and WC won it.

I first saw Princeton run that play at the end of an NCAA tournament game when Pete Carril was the coach. They didn't the call and lost, but I still thought that it was good thinking and have always remembered it.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncw/recap?gameId=290682717

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

They ran the play that we've discussed before on here to draw a foul.

Did the screener have a foot on the boundary line?

[Adam]

Not a violation, Billy, when it's an endline throwin.

I saw one of these happen in a game, where the collision was really violent, knocking the screener A2 out of the game. The officials called a flagrant foul and ejected the defender B1. Sub A6 came in and shot both free throws to take the lead, and eventually the win. The B team decided to throw a long pass but the boy ended up throwing OOB at the other end. A gets the ball back, and ends up shooting another set of free throws because of an intentional foul by B. Freaking bizarre ending to a game.

[VolDoug]

I may be wrong, but from a discussion last year about a similar situation, I thought it was determined that if, in the judgment of the official, the screener was outside of the defender's field of view that there was no violation, regardless of the force of the impact.

Is that not correct?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by VolDoug

I may be wrong, but from a discussion last year about a similar situation, I thought it was determined that if, in the judgment of the official, the screener was outside of the defender's field of view that there was no violation, regardless of the force of the impact.

Is that not correct?

Read the definition of screening -- it requires the player being screend to stop (or attempt to stop) on contact.

And, that usually wouldn't apply on the type of screen being discussed.

Frankly, I'm surprised the play still works. I'd think that coaches would tell the player guarding the inbounder to be ready for it.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by VolDoug

I may be wrong, but from a discussion last year about a similar situation, I thought it was determined that if, in the judgment of the official, the screener was outside of the defender's field of view that there was no violation, regardless of the force of the impact.

Is that not correct?

A foul is not based on the severity of the contact.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Not a violation, Billy, when it's an endline throwin.

That's one opinion and I don't agree with it.

The rule does not say a teamamte of the thrower can be OOB on a throw-in. The rule says the teammate can be BEYOND THE BOUNDARY LINE. A player who has one foot inbounds and one foot OOB is NOT beyond the boundary line.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Did the screener have a foot on the boundary line?

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Not a violation, Billy, when it's an endline throwin.

I'm not saying that it is a violation, or a foul, but, I'm also not saying that it is a violation, or a foul. Didn't we just have a very long thread discussing this a few weeks ago? Did we come up with a definitive answer to this. Snaqwells seems very confident in his answer. Do we all agree with him? I'd like to know the right answer.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I'm not saying that it is a violation, or a foul, but, I'm also not saying that it is a violation, or a foul. Didn't we just have a very long thread discussing this a few weeks ago? Did we come up with a definitive answer to this. Snaqwells seems very confident in his answer. Do we all agree with him? I'd like to know the right answer.

Confidence is part of my nature and not indicative of my accuracy. That said, in order for a player to get from inbounds to OOB, they have to be allowed to be, at one point, standing with one foot in and one foot out. Unless you're going to call a violation on the following play:

Following a made basket, A1 grabs the ball and heads OOB for the proper endline throwin. A2 then steps OOB as well and receives a pass from A1. A1 then leans forward due to balance and steps over the line before A2 releases the pass for the throwin.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Confidence is part of my nature and not indicative of my accuracy. That said, in order for a player to get from inbounds to OOB, they have to be allowed to be, at one point, standing with one foot in and one foot out. Unless you're going to call a violation on the following play: Following a made basket, A1 grabs the ball and heads OOB for the proper endline throwin. A2 then steps OOB as well and receives a pass from A1. A1 then leans forward due to balance and steps over the line before A2 releases the pass for the throwin.

OK. Let's change it up a little. Team B scores. A1 legally steps out of bounds to make his throwin to A2, however, B1 immediately steals the thowin and is driving along the endline to the basket. Seeing what is about to happen, without delay in returning inbounds, A1 steps inbounds to take the charge. Everything that A1 does in terms of legal guarding position, is 100% legal, by the book, except A1 had one foot on the endline boundary line. Blocking foul on A1 because he had a foot on the boundary line, per a NFHS interpretation a few years ago, or player control foul because A1 was legally out of bounds? Now let's go back to the screen. Is the screen legal if the screener has one foot on the endline boundary line, and I already know that screens have nothing to do with legal guarding position? I honestly don't know the correct answer to this, but would love to be convinced one way, or the other.

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

I ran this play twice as a coach. Once we got the contact but no call, and another time we got no contact (the defender spotted the screen and pulled up). I was glad to see it work when I saw this highlight a week or two ago.