OT - OSAA gone too PC?

Some of the stuff in that list is mild in comparison to what I heard once at a state tournament game several years ago. Big city school (predominately black-we'll call them school A) playing school from the next big city (predominately white-we'll call them school B). For the sake of identity and obviousness, I'm not even going to mention the gender of the tournament being played. School A starts a chant, something in reference to their players being much quicker and better shooters. I can't remember exact words, but it was a bit of a "we're better than you" kind of attitude to it. School B comes back with a "Who's Your Daddy?" chant with an aristocratic snootiness in the chant. I never saw so many administrators from a school converge on the student body so fast!

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by WreckRef

Personally, I think that the OSAA went too far with some of these.

Originally Posted by Tim C

So let me get this straight: The Oregon School Activities Association has generated rules that require schools to model Good Sportsmanship and you are against that.

The OSAA is just following the general philosophy the NFHS that feels that a sporting event is an extension of the classroom and a learning experience for players, coaches, officials and fans.

My, what a terrible thing.

Let the college crowds model what ever they want. High school sports has a totally different direction (intended result) than college or professional sports.

If attendance is down because of this (and there is no data to prove it is or is not) then perhaps it is the correct people that are staying away. I have enjoyed football and basketball games more this year than anytime in the past 10 years.

Tim Christensen

I think you've exagerated a bit here. WreckRef (no thanks for quoting his actually post, btw) said that some are too far.

Do you really believe that high school athletes are emotionally harmed when their opponents read newspapers instead of listening when opponents are being introduced, or when opponents shoot free throws, etc?

If the OP is true, I think the OSAA is taking the easy route by denying all "reverse cheering" so that they don't have to deal with the possible racial comments made because of this type of cheering.

[SamIAm]

JMO -
Schools compete for more than just the final score. The spectators want to show more support than the other teams spectators. When the support gets to negative actions, even the "just a little negative" actions, how do you show more support? By doing the same thing (that would be a tie score) or something a little more negative (my teams spectators won). How does this not escalate?

If you remove all the negativity (picture Donald Southerlland in Kelly's Heros as I just did and you will get a laugh), escalation should only harm your ears.
That would be a perfect world, which we don't live in. So, should we allow negativity and just remove that which exceeds the officials limits? Who likes doing that?

It is mush easier to officiate the game while listening to fans cheering for their own team as opposed to thinking "am I going to have to get game admin to remove the bozo in the second row".

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

If the OP is true, I think the OSAA is taking the easy route by denying all "reverse cheering" so that they don't have to deal with the possible racial comments made because of this type of cheering.

I think that is a wonderful point. I have no problem with some razzing as long as it is fun. If behavior goes too far, remove the people that are behaving badly and be done with it. There is a difference between yelling "air ball" than calling someone "ugly" which happen at my game the other night. BTW, that comment was dealt with immediately without anyone having to say a word to the administration.

Peace

[WreckRef]

Originally Posted by Tim C

So let me get this straight: The Oregon School Activities Association has generated rules that require schools to model Good Sportsmanship and you are against that.

The OSAA is just following the general philosophy the NFHS that feels that a sporting event is an extension of the classroom and a learning experience for players, coaches, officials and fans.

My, what a terrible thing.

Let the college crowds model what ever they want. High school sports has a totally different direction (intended result) than college or professional sports.

If attendance is down because of this (and there is no data to prove it is or is not) then perhaps it is the correct people that are staying away. I have enjoyed football and basketball games more this year than anytime in the past 10 years.

Tim Christensen

Secretary
Oregon Athletic Officals Association
State Baseball Umpire Committee

Publication Committee Member
National Federation of State High Schools
High School Today

Unfortunately you are reading only what you want to read, not what I actually said as well as saying I said things that I did not say.

I never said I am against good sportsmanship but somehow you attack me by saying that I am. I have coached multiple youth sports for over 10 years, officiated multiple sports for 20 years and played sports my entire life. As a coach I always taught good sportsmanship, win or lose. As an official, there have been VERY FEW instances where I thought the crowd was acting inappropriately.

To be honest with you, I have found that the bigger problem with behavior comes from the adults in the stands, not the students.

Bottom line is I think the OSAA has gone too far. The new policy is a response to very ugly and inappropriate incidents that happened last year. Those types of incidents don't belong in society, PERIOD. Unfortunately the response is punishing/banning things that I do not see as being more than students behaving like students.

[Tim C]

" . . . but somehow you attack me . . ."

Please show me were I "attacked" you.

"I think you've exagerated a bit here."

Let me see I "exagerated" just where? I tried to explain the reasoning behind the OSAA ruling. Nothing more.

I agree with the rules and that, somehow, makes me the bad guy.

Go figger . . .

[Juulie Downs]

Originally Posted by Tim C

So let me get this straight: The Oregon School Activities Association has generated rules that require schools to model Good Sportsmanship and you are against that.

The OSAA is just following the general philosophy the NFHS that feels that a sporting event is an extension of the classroom and a learning experience for players, coaches, officials and fans.

My, what a terrible thing.

This feels like you're accusing him of promoting bad sportsmanship and attacking him. Especially the part about him being against your interp of the new rules.

I agree with Wreck, that the OSAA has gone way, way too far. And I think they'd get a LOT better results if they'd spend their time and energy actively including good things, instead of excluding everything that even looks like it might be a problem somewhere to someone.

[bob jenkins]

Like all "moral" judgments, no matter where the line is drawn, some will say it's too severe and some will complain it's too lax.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Like all "moral" judgments, no matter where the line is drawn, some will say it's too severe and some will complain it's too lax.

And that is why you cannot legislate morality for only moral reasons. It would be better if they just made a statement about negative behavior than trying to single out specific actions that are often harmless. As said before, the most inappropriate comments I hear are from parents. You would think the parents are going to fight by the things they say and the way they behave. Kids tend to be much more lighthearted and fun.

Peace

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Tim C

So let me get this straight: The Oregon School Activities Association has generated rules that require schools to model Good Sportsmanship and you are against that.

The OSAA is just following the general philosophy the NFHS that feels that a sporting event is an extension of the classroom and a learning experience for players, coaches, officials and fans.

My, what a terrible thing.

Let the college crowds model what ever they want. High school sports has a totally different direction (intended result) than college or professional sports.

If attendance is down because of this (and there is no data to prove it is or is not) then perhaps it is the correct people that are staying away. I have enjoyed football and basketball games more this year than anytime in the past 10 years.

Tim Christensen

Secretary
Oregon Athletic Officals Association
State Baseball Umpire Committee

Publication Committee Member
National Federation of State High Schools
High School Today

Every single basketball ref I've talked to thinks it's ridiculous and way overly officious. Thanks OSAA - way to take a whole bunch of the fun out of going to basketball games for the entire student body. I'm sure they'll find something much more entertaining to do while they're not having good, clean fun at the games on Friday nights.

[WreckRef]

I think they are using too broad of a sword to try to eliminate a problem. Like I have said all along, the problems they are trying to eliminate (racism, etc.) do not belong in society, PERIOD, let alone sports. I just think they are taking it too far and eliminating what is harmless fun for the student body. I mean, really, is a player emotionally ruined for life if a student from the opposing section yells, "Air ball!!!" at him/her after he/she throws up an air ball?

I know that if these were the rules when I was in high school I probably wouldn't have gone to any basketball games.

When I was an athlete in high school I had a couple of racist slurs thrown my way (I'm a minority.) While they didn't bother me because I just chalked it up to stupidity, I do see how it could bother others and I definitely believe it has no place in sports. It just seems like they are punishing the overwhelming majority who attend the games and want to have fun with these new rules.

Disclaimer: This is all JMHO.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

Hey, I would be in violation of the newspaper "rule"! I read mine during the introductions when I go watch the games, because that is the BORING part of the game!

I read "Chicks and Ammo" (credit to Robin Williams). BTW - when I was in HS (back in the dark ages) and an opponent was going to shoot a FT, we would chant "SEE THAT BASKET, SEE THAT BALL, C'MON STUPID, HIT THE WALL". We were never chastised for it or anything else. Sometimes we would get really nasty, especially during playoffs.

[WreckRef]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

I read "Chicks and Ammo" (credit to Robin Williams). BTW - when I was in HS (back in the dark ages) and an opponent was going to shoot a FT, we would chant "SEE THAT BASKET, SEE THAT BALL, C'MON STUPID, HIT THE WALL". We were never chastised for it or anything else. Sometimes we would get really nasty, especially during playoffs.

Now if I heard this, I would miss because I would be laughing so hard. On a side note, I didn't play basketball in high school, I played soccer.

I always had the opposing fans riding me because I usually marked (defended for you basketball only people) their best player. The more they booed and yelled at me, the harder and better it made me play, I loved it and fed off of it. One time I tackled a teams best player (legally) right in front of the student body, they screamed bloody murder to no avail, I got up and took a bow. They really loved me after that.

[rockyroad]

Did a game last season - Girl's Varsity - where the home team fans in the first half chanted "Bounce, bounce, bounce" every time the point guard dribbled the ball, and screamed "Whoaaaaaaaaaaa" every time the "star" player had the ball in her hands, ala the "Cameron Crazies"...as the AD was letting us into the locker room at half, he told us he would "take care of that stuff"!! I asked him "Why?" and he felt that it was not "proper sporting behavior". So he made them stop.

Whatever.

[Tim C]

"Especially the part about him being against your interp of the new rules."

It is not "my" interp . . . it is the interpretation of the OSAA as given by Cindy Simmons (Assistant Executive Director of the OSAA) at the State Baseball Commissioners meeting.

Regards,