Traveling ?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Under NFHS Rules, A1 is sitting on top of B1. B1 is entitled to his position on the floor and A1 has violated B1's verticality.

MTD, Sr.

Just the facts. All we know from the OP is that "A1 ends up sitting on the back of B1....." This is not enough information to say it was a foul on anybody.
For all we know, B1 rolled/slid under A1 and cut his legs out from under him.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Just the facts. All we know from the OP is that "A1 ends up sitting on the back of B1....." This is not enough information to say it was a foul on anybody.
For all we know, B1 rolled/slid under A1 and cut his legs out from under him.

B1 rolled/slid under A1 and cut his legs out from under him, then I would have a foul on B1 for blocking.

MTD, Sr.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Just the facts. All we know from the OP is that "A1 ends up sitting on the back of B1....." This is not enough information to say it was a foul on anybody.
For all we know, B1 rolled/slid under A1 and cut his legs out from under him.

Game, set, match to JAR. He's got you, Mark!!!

Nice one JAR!!

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Game, set, match to JAR. He's got you, Mark!!!

Nice one JAR!!

Thanks, it was nothing. Thought he was just gonna ignore me. Some around here do that when painted into a corner.

But we didn't answer the original question in the OP. I.........actually don't know the answer.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I actually don't know the answer.

http://ac4.yt-thm-a04.yimg.com/image/466182f81b0c71f6

[just another ref]

After further consideration, maybe I do know the answer. If we reached this point with neither player being whistled for a foul, then the contact was either ruled incidental or missed. So we proceed with the information we have. A1 is not touching the ball with any body part other than hand or foot. Therefore, unless he establishes a pivot foot and then lifts that foot and returns it to the floor, he is free to do anything: pass, shoot, start a dribble, even stand up

[OHBBREF]

If you got to this point without a foul I can not see calling one because B1 moves, at the same time if B1's movement cause A1 to move - A1 is not traveling. All of the movments that would be ruled traveling are made by the player with the ball, and not forced by contact with another player, if contact forced the movement it would be a foul.
In this case since it is likely that A1's movement is caused by B1 moving you either rule on that contact which I would have to say is incidental or rule that A1 has not established a pivot point (foot) and ignore the movement.

But the questions here is how did A1 end up on B1's back going for the ball in a scrum without a foul being called in the first place.

it is my opinion that we as officials do not call all lot of the fouls that occur during these scrums, and go with the held ball instead. In reviewing films this year I cam up with 10 - 15 cases where I myself should have had foul calls before the held ball was called as there was clearly a push or hack in the scrum that should have been called first.
That is something I plan to work on over the off season this year.

[Refk]

I'm not sure how the kids ended up on top of each other , as you stated I think we are all guilty of not calling fouls in the scrums ............ I appreciate the feedback and am going to pass it on to our coach this morning.


Thanks again.