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-   -   What's Wrong with this Ball.. (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/51919-whats-wrong-ball.html)

Splute Fri Feb 27, 2009 01:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 583745)
If there are other players around when A1 tries to reconstitute his dribble, I'd call it. The OP has him hitting it with his fist, intentionally. I'm not sure how you think this doesn't qualify. If fits, but is generally only applied when safety is an issue.

I do not believe that is the intent of the rule. we see players bat the ball (with side of fist) to their teammates after a goal all night long; do you call the violation for that? No, of course not. However, if during a rebound or loose ball scrum, a player used his fist to volley the ball down court, then it applies. I simply do not believe contact with a closed hand consititutes a violation, in my judgment.

Amesman Fri Feb 27, 2009 01:16pm

Back to the basics
 
Before the embers go cold here (or before I'm fully awake, I guess), I'd like to get clarification on what I thought was the crux of No. 1 in the OP.

What is the ramification, if any, if A1 is dribbling and either loses control of the ball or just "closes down" on it so his hand is ultimately sitting on top of a non-moving ball. May he a) slap down on it with open hand to bring his dribble back to life or b) punch/fist it back up to a dribble again? (Note: It has nothing to do with a defective ball, and the player has not yet picked up the ball or put his hand under it.)

Da Official Fri Feb 27, 2009 01:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amesman (Post 583842)
Before the embers go cold here (or before I'm fully awake, I guess), I'd like to get clarification on what I thought was the crux of No. 1 in the OP.

What is the ramification, if any, if A1 is dribbling and either loses control of the ball or just "closes down" on it so his hand is ultimately sitting on top of a non-moving ball. May he a) slap down on it with open hand to bring his dribble back to life or b) punch/fist it back up to a dribble again? (Note: It has nothing to do with a defective ball, and the player has not yet picked up the ball or put his hand under it.)

Amesman, that is the crux.

Adam Fri Feb 27, 2009 02:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splute (Post 583839)
I do not believe that is the intent of the rule. we see players bat the ball (with side of fist) to their teammates after a goal all night long; do you call the violation for that? No, of course not. However, if during a rebound or loose ball scrum, a player used his fist to volley the ball down court, then it applies. I simply do not believe contact with a closed hand consititutes a violation, in my judgment.

Really? The rule is with the kick rule, and simply says striking the ball with a fist; just like it says striking the ball with a foot is a violation. Same wording, same intent.

FWIW, I never see players use their fists to pass a live ball.

You know why you don't call this or see it called? The ball is dead. You can't call a violation during a dead ball.

BillyMac Fri Feb 27, 2009 05:54pm

Article is provided "as is" without any warranties.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett (Post 583834)
When I started officiating, we had a lot of trouble with the basketballs. Sometimes the laces would start to unravel, and sometimes the ball would bet a big gash in it from striking the lip of the peach basket.

What was the ball stuffed with?

Splute Sat Feb 28, 2009 09:15am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 583862)
Really? The rule is with the kick rule, and simply says striking the ball with a fist; just like it says striking the ball with a foot is a violation. Same wording, same intent.

FWIW, I never see players use their fists to pass a live ball.

You know why you don't call this or see it called? The ball is dead. You can't call a violation during a dead ball.

Lol, very true Snaqs, it is dead, Im afraid I didnt put enough thought into that comment. However, I do not see simply dribbling the ball with a closed hand to be the same as intentionally kicking or intentionally careeming the ball with a fist, in an attempt to gain an advantage. Both of these instances may give the player an advantage and considered unsporting. Simply starting a dribble with a closed hand or dribbling the ball with a closed hand does not give the dribbler an advantage (imo); perhaps even a disadvantage. :) Just my opinion. But i have never seen either in a game; just at the park. Thanks for the discussion.

Adam Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splute (Post 584045)
Lol, very true Snaqs, it is dead, Im afraid I didnt put enough thought into that comment. However, I do not see simply dribbling the ball with a closed hand to be the same as intentionally kicking or intentionally careeming the ball with a fist, in an attempt to gain an advantage. Both of these instances may give the player an advantage and considered unsporting. Simply starting a dribble with a closed hand or dribbling the ball with a closed hand does not give the dribbler an advantage (imo); perhaps even a disadvantage. :) Just my opinion. But i have never seen either in a game; just at the park. Thanks for the discussion.

You're right, I've never seen it either, and I've never heard of it being called in this situation. I did see a girls swing for the ball once and miss, hitting the player with the ball. I called a foul (should have gone intentional) and the coach started to whine about touch fouls and crap. I walked over to him and explained (not so calmly, I'm afraid) that his player had just hit the opponent with a fist while trying to hit the ball.

I learned two lessons on that play.

Back to the point. A player starting or continuing a dribble with a fist fits the letter of this rule, and in most cases, violations are not determined with advantage/disadvantage. However, this is not one you want to be calling 5 times a year; it's about as rare as the T for faking being fouled.


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