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jeffpea Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:02pm

my main reason for NOT wanting to "flip a coin" on jump balls is simply because my partners won't use a coin of their own - they're so cheap, they won't "pay attention"....

JugglingReferee Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffpea (Post 581539)
my main reason for NOT wanting to "flip a coin" on jump balls is simply because my partners won't use a coin of their own - they're so cheap, they won't "pay attention"....

Just like the home team provides a game ball, have the home team provide a coin. If they can't produce one, the V gets the first possession. Make sure the coin doesn't have the same picture on each side. :p

BillyMac Sat Feb 21, 2009 09:25am

Use only as directed.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 581316)
According to Benford's Law.

Is that anything like Burke's Law?

"Never ask a question unless you already know the answer. Burke's Law." (Amos Burke)

BillyMac Sat Feb 21, 2009 09:31am

Postage will be paid by addressee
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee (Post 581547)
Make sure the coin doesn't have the same picture on each side.

Like the double-headed 1922 Peace Dollar trademark coin used by Harvey Dent/Two-Face in the Batman flick, "The Dark Knight", which he flips when making important decisions?

BillyMac Sat Feb 21, 2009 09:42am

For recreational use only.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 581079)
BillyMac, here's a thread just for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee (Post 581081)
I think we do quite a good job at tossing the ball up.

The toss isn't the main problem, although it may be a part of the problem. It's the umpire watching the eight non-jumpers. Too many rules, in too little time, used too infrequently. On the circle, off the circle, marked spaces, ready to toss, ball tossed but not touched, ball touched, moving into a marked space, leaving marked space, moving into an unmarked space, etc. Many officials I know, as the umpire, just hope that nothing weird happens, and just look for fouls, and out of bounds, during a jump ball, and sometimes, I include myself in that group, on a bad night. The only problem I have with a coin toss is, I believe, that they tried it in Iowa, for girls games, several years ago, and they went back to jump ball. They must have found a problem with a coin toss. Officials from the Hawkeye State, please share any pertinent information with us.

BillyMac Sat Feb 21, 2009 09:46am

All models over 18 years of age.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffpea (Post 581270)
Why is it that the NFC, including this year, has won the last 11 Super Bowl coin flips to start the game (and 14 of the last 15)?

At least NFC captains don't call, "Heads, tails", like a Pittsburgh captain did a few years ago, which caused the creation of new rules and mechanics for NFL coin tosses.

JugglingReferee Sat Feb 21, 2009 09:49am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 581787)
At least NFC captains don't call, "Heads, tails", like a Pittsburgh captain did a few years ago, which caused the creation of new rules and mechanics for NFL coin tosses.

Yup. Jermoe Bettis flubbed that one. He knew it, too. Good call by the R, imho.

JugglingReferee Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:26am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 581786)
The toss isn't the main problem, although it may be a part of the problem. It's the umpire watching the eight non-jumpers. Too many rules, in too little time, used too infrequently. On the circle, off the circle, marked spaces, ready to toss, ball tossed but not touched, ball touched, moving into a marked space, leaving marked space, moving into an unmarked space, etc. Many officials I know, as the umpire, just hope that nothing weird happens, and just look for fouls, and out of bounds, during a jump ball, and sometimes, I include myself in that group, on a bad night. The only problem I have with a coin toss is, I believe, that they tried it in Iowa, for girls games, several years ago, and they went back to jump ball. They must have found a problem with a coin toss. Officials from the Hawkeye State, please share any pertinent information with us.

Good points. A few things I have noticed in my neck of the woods: teams so rarely use the ability to run the endline, and they mostly stay still during the jump ball. Every jump, I give myself the self-talk about what jumpers and non-jumpers can and cannot do. JP violations just don't happen, I find.

Adam Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:26am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 581786)
The toss isn't the main problem, although it may be a part of the problem. It's the umpire watching the eight non-jumpers. Too many rules, in too little time, used too infrequently. On the circle, off the circle, marked spaces, ready to toss, ball tossed but not touched, ball touched, moving into a marked space, leaving marked space, moving into an unmarked space, etc. Many officials I know, as the umpire, just hope that nothing weird happens, and just look for fouls, and out of bounds, during a jump ball, and sometimes, I include myself in that group, on a bad night. The only problem I have with a coin toss is, I believe, that they tried it in Iowa, for girls games, several years ago, and they went back to jump ball. They must have found a problem with a coin toss. Officials from the Hawkeye State, please share any pertinent information with us.

No problems, I don't think. What kind of problems could there possibly be. The girls just started moving towards alignment with the boys rules by removing a bunch of their "adaptations," and the coin toss was the first to go.

It felt silly to me.

ga314ref Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 581316)
Well, if your question is whether 14/15 is 50%, the answer is no. But the prior probability of flipping a heads is 0.5, even though it doesn't seem that way.

In fact, according to Benford's Law, a long string of the same result would be expected given a long enough series of tosses.

According to Dr. Benford, I'm only 40 years from being even in poker.

Forksref Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:07am

If I were to consider any change in the held ball rule, I'd award the ball to the defensive player's team for a throw-in in order to reward the defense.

This would not be the case on rebounds that were joint possession before either team could get possession. In this case I'd go with the AP.

Thank the Lord that we have AP instead of jump balls. And we all know it came about because of girls BB.

Adam Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:01am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forksref (Post 581979)
If I were to consider any change in the held ball rule, I'd award the ball to the defensive player's team for a throw-in in order to reward the defense.

This would not be the case on rebounds that were joint possession before either team could get possession. In this case I'd go with the AP.

Thank the Lord that we have AP instead of jump balls. And we all know it came about because of girls BB.

Best thing the NCAA did was get rid of that experiment. The defense gets enough of a reward for this as it is. They either get the ball or force the opponent to use up their arrow to keep it.


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