Big Man Penalized by REFS?????

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by rwest

Situation A: Big Man has position in the paint. Small point guard goes in for a layup. Contact squarely in the chest. Big man doesn't move. Small point guard bounces off of him. No call.

Situation B: Small point guard has position in the paint. Big man goes in for a layup. Contact squarely in the chest. Small point guard goes down. No call?
I don't think so.

Same exact play with different results gets a different call. It may be your pet peeve, but it is a fact that we are taught to use "advantage/disadvantage" and "displacement" to determine fouls. A Big Man can take more contact and not be disadvantaged or displaced. Coaches don't mind the advantage a big mans size gives him over smaller players. When it comes to contact, he can take more without a foul being called. Imagine calling a foul on the small guard for bumping the big man going in for a layup and the big man doesn't even move. Now, imagine the effect the Big man is going to have on the small guard in the same play. One was disadvantaged, the other was not.

So Big Man catches pass in the low post and pivots to shoot a right handed Kareem-style-skyhook. Little guard is hanging on Big Man's left arm. Big Man shoots the right handed shot with left arm being drug towards ground. Obviously there was no advantage/disadvantage because the big, strong Big Man was able to complete his hook shot, so you would not call a foul, right?

[rwest]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

So Big Man catches pass in the low post and pivots to shoot a right handed Kareem-style-skyhook. Little guard is hanging on Big Man's left arm. Big Man shoots the right handed shot with left arm being drug towards ground. Obviously there was no advantage/disadvantage because the big, strong Big Man was able to complete his hook shot, so you would not call a foul, right?

I'd call a foul there because he was placed at a disadvantage. He's balance would be affected. The shot was made more difficult. You can come up with plenty of plays were I would call a foul on the smaller player. I can come up with just as many where I wouldn't call a foul. I neve made a blanket statement. It depends on the play. But I can guarantee you there are plenty of times where contact by a big man on a smaller player is going to get called for a foul but the same contact the other way wont get a whistle. You might not like it but that's how we are taught to officiate the game. And its the correct way, in my opinion. Remember not all contact is a foul. You have to judge advantage/disadvantage and displacement. If you call a foul every time there is contact then you are interrupting the game.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by rwest

You are interrupting the game.

You were doing fine until you made this statement. There are certain "buzzwords", i.e. reach in, over the back, etc., that change otherwise low-key Forum members into raging pit bulls. Unfortunately you said the secret word, and, unfortunately, again, you are not about to win one-hundred dollars. I suggest that you legally change your Forum username, and apply to the Federal Witness Protection Program, or at the minimum, duck. I would have thought that you would have known better after 475 posts. You're not a newbie anymore. I think that that's going to count against you. You will never become an esteemed member by making statements like that.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

You were doing fine until you made this statement. There are certain "buzzwords", i.e. reach in, over the back, etc., that change otherwise low-key Forum members into raging pit bulls. Unfortunately you said the secret word, and, unfortunately, again, you are not about to win one-hundred dollars. I suggest that you legally change your Forum username, and apply to the Federal Witness Protection Program, or at the minimum, duck. I would have thought that you would have known better after 475 posts. You're not a newbie anymore. I think that that's going to count against you. You will never become an esteemed member by making statements like that.

You're funny! I have no problem with anything that I've said. You've never heard of "gameus interruptus". It's not a bad officiating practice to teach officials not to interrupt the flow of the game with contact that is not a foul. I'm not saying we don't call a foul just so we don't interrupt the game. I'm saying we don't interrupt the game by calling contact that is not a foul. Why do you have a problem with that?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by rwest

"Gameus interruptus".

A prescription for Viagra should take care of that. See your family doctor. And I still think that you had better take cover. I think that I'm going to take a neutral stand here, like Switzerland, and just sit back, and enjoy the war.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

A prescription for Viagra should take care of that. See your family doctor. And I still think that you had better take cover. I think that I'm going to take a neutral stand, like Switzerland, here, and just sit back, and enjoy the war.

That's so out of character for you! What is wrong with what I said? I'd really like to know. All I'm saying is don't interrupt the flow of the game by calling fouls that have no bearing on the game. Fouls that don't fall into the advantage/disadvantage or displacement categories. What's wrong with that?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by rwest

All I'm saying is don't interrupt the flow of the game by calling fouls that have no bearing on the game. Fouls that don't fall into the advantage/disadvantage or displacement categories.

These two statements say it all. Most of what you say, if I can read between the lines, makes a lot of sense, i.e. calling, or not calling, fouls based on advantage, and disadvantage. The problem is that we call, or don't call, fouls, based on advantage, and disadvantage, not to keep the game flowing, but to make sure that each team has a fair chance to win based on how well that team plays that night. We interrupt the game everytime we blow the whistle. That's part of the game of basketball. As an official, we should never, never, worry about interrupting the flow of the game.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

So Big Man catches pass in the low post and pivots to shoot a right handed Kareem-style-skyhook. Little guard is hanging on Big Man's left arm. Big Man shoots the right handed shot with left arm being drug towards ground. Obviously there was no advantage/disadvantage because the big, strong Big Man was able to complete his hook shot, so you would not call a foul, right?

Rocky, I'm not sure your suggestion is fair to rwest. He said he uses advantage/disadvantage and displacement to call fouls. He did not say that's all he uses. Some fouls are obvious independent of disadvantage, and you've provided an example.