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-   -   5 Second Count question (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/51556-5-second-count-question.html)

Adam Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mick (Post 577758)
He can contact the opponent from the side....:)
Wouldn't the count be over by that point?

Texas Aggie Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:53pm
In the Fed rules, its stated under the definition of closely guarded in rule 4.

dbking Tue Feb 10, 2009 01:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spence (Post 577708)
A buddy of mine asked me if in college the rule counts if the person with the ball penetrates the 28 foot line.

??
Spence that rule left the court in the 80's and I hope it never returns! The only reason now that we have the 28' line is for coaching boxes at all levels of nfhs and ncaa.

mick Tue Feb 10, 2009 01:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbking (Post 577775)
Spence that rule left the court in the 80's and I hope it never returns! The only reason now that we have the 28' line is for coaching boxes at all levels of nfhs and ncaa.
...And for warmups, ... and a starting place that a Trail can find. :)

CMHCoachNRef Tue Feb 10, 2009 02:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee (Post 577710)
This is incorrect. The defender can stay with the offensive player and mainting his guarding position. The count will continue. You can even have a 5 second violation on a drive to the hoop. The only way the count ends is if the offensive players gets head and shoulders PAST the defender or if the defender loses his legal guarding position or if he backs up more than 6 feet.
I believe that the requirement is the defender must be within 6 feet (measuring nearest foot to nearest foot). It does not matter whether the offensive player retreats to get more than 6 feet of space or if the defending retreats to give more than 6 feet of space.

deecee Tue Feb 10, 2009 02:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef (Post 577803)
I believe that the requirement is the defender must be within 6 feet (measuring nearest foot to nearest foot). It does not matter whether the offensive player retreats to get more than 6 feet of space or if the defending retreats to give more than 6 feet of space.
yes that too, but i assumed that could be inferred by what i typed.

And a defender can lose his LGP by a quick move and the defender falls, offense gets his head and shoulders past the defender, defender and offensive player move to the same position and collide at the same time, I would put this contact on the defense all the time.

Adam Tue Feb 10, 2009 03:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee (Post 577826)
yes that too, but i assumed that could be inferred by what i typed.

And a defender can lose his LGP by a quick move and the defender falls, offense gets his head and shoulders past the defender, defender and offensive player move to the same position and collide at the same time, I would put this contact on the defense all the time.
If the defender falls, I'm not stopping my count. There is no rule basis for that (unless the dribbler goes past the prone defender).
And where does it say a defender who has fallen has lost his LGP?

mick Tue Feb 10, 2009 03:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 577835)
If the defender falls, I'm not stopping my count. There is no rule basis for that (unless the dribbler goes past the prone defender).
And where does it say a defender who has fallen has lost his LGP?
With the defender on the floor, I could not rationalize continuing the count.

deecee Tue Feb 10, 2009 03:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 577835)
If the defender falls, I'm not stopping my count. There is no rule basis for that (unless the dribbler goes past the prone defender).
And where does it say a defender who has fallen has lost his LGP?
I disagree here. I do think lying prone on the ground is NOT playing defense. No count from me.

Adam Tue Feb 10, 2009 03:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee (Post 577843)
I disagree here. I do think lying prone on the ground is NOT playing defense. No count from me.
So a player falls due to balance (a great move, if you want) and immediately gets up. You're starting a new count?

IREFU2 Tue Feb 10, 2009 04:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spence (Post 577708)
A buddy of mine asked me if in college the rule counts if the person with the ball penetrates the 28 foot line.

??
No, that was an old rule that has since been removed.

deecee Tue Feb 10, 2009 04:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 577848)
So a player falls due to balance (a great move, if you want) and immediately gets up. You're starting a new count?
Yes I am. LGP ended when the defender fell, once he re-establishes himself I will restart.

Raymond Tue Feb 10, 2009 04:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 577848)
So a player falls due to balance (a great move, if you want) and immediately gets up. You're starting a new count?
You can argue that if the defender falls to the floor he/she is no longer continuously guarding the ball-handler.

Adam Tue Feb 10, 2009 04:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 577855)
You can argue that if the defender falls to the floor he/she is no longer continuously guarding the ball-handler.
You could argue that, and I would go with it if he stays there. If he makes an immediate, continuous attempt to get up, he's playing defense the whole time.

Adam Tue Feb 10, 2009 04:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee (Post 577850)
Yes I am. LGP ended when the defender fell, once he re-establishes himself I will restart.
Where does it say LGP is required for a 5 second count?


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