Timer Makes a Mistake

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

MTD is mostly correct.
1. He is 100% right that there are no do-overs. It says so in the NFHS Officials Manual.
2. He is also right that if play isn't stopped until an inbounds player has touched the ball, then any stoppage would result in a throw-in nearest to that location, not back on the end line due to the POI rule.
3. He is NOT correct that in this instance the horn sounding doesn't stop play. This is not the timer/scorer blowing the horn to signal the officials. It is the period ending horn that goes off when time has expired, even if this has happened incorrectly. When time has expired erroneously, the referee can correct that with definitely knowledge. What he cannot do is allow the teams to conduct playing action following the sounding of the horn, conduct his own count, and have the action stand! The teams are operating under the premise that this horn tells them to stop and unless there is a try in flight it makes the ball dead. That is what the rules say.
4. Furthermore, he is failing to acknowledge that a stoppage DURING the throw-in would make the POI an end line throw-in for the same team after the timing mistake is corrected per 4-36-2b. It's not a do-over, but it does look like one.

NevadaRef's Item (3): I will concede that my position is not one of the four (4) listed in R5-S6-A2, but R5-S6-A2 presumes that the clock was started correctly and therefore the Timer's signal is correct, which is not the case in the OP. Furthermore, R2-S12-A7 states: "The Timer shall indicate by signal the expiration of playing time in each quarter or extra period. If a supplementary red light is used, the Timer’s signal is the official
expiration of playing time." The automatic sounding of the timer's signal is the same as if the Timer himself had sounded the signal; I was always taught, as a player, to play until I hear a game official's whistle, therefore, the players should ignore the Timer's signal and play until a game official sounds his whistle (at least well coached teams are taught this).

NevadaRef's Item (4): My rebuttal of his Item (3) negates the need for a POI.

MTD, Sr,


P.S. Let the fun begin, .

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

NevadaRef's Item (3): I will concede that my position is not one of the four (4) listed in R5-S6-A2, but R5-S6-A2 presumes that the clock was started correctly and therefore the Timer's signal is correct, which is not the case in the OP. Furthermore, R2-S12-A7 states: "The Timer shall indicate by signal the expiration of playing time in each quarter or extra period. If a supplementary red light is used, the Timer’s signal is the official
expiration of playing time." The automatic sounding of the timer's signal is the same as if the Timer himself had sounded the signal; I was always taught, as a player, to play until I hear a game official's whistle, therefore, the players should ignore the Timer's signal and play until a game official sounds his whistle (at least well coached teams are taught this).

NevadaRef's Item (4): My rebuttal of his Item (3) negates the need for a POI.

MTD, Sr,


P.S. Let the fun begin, .

6-7-6 is the problem with what you wish to do. When that horn sounds the ball becomes dead, unless a try is in flight. Period. The End. It's that simple.

When there isn't a try in flight, the sounding of the period-ending horn makes the ball dead, not an official's whistle. An official may sound his whistle anyway if he so desires, but it is superfluous. The only time that a whistle is needed is when there is a try for goal in flight prior to the sounding of the horn. In that case, the official should observe the end of the try and sound the whistle to indicate to the players that the ball is now dead.

What you have advocated doing goes completely against the rules for live ball/dead ball. It amounts to yelling "play-on" after an official accidentally sounds his whistle during play! You just can't do that. The bottom line is that even if a whistle or a period-ending horn signaling the expiration of time sounds in error, it still has the same effect--it makes the ball dead, unless a try is in flight.