When, geometrically, do you know you have BI?

[bas2456]

Well if the defender touched the ball after it hit the backboard, is it not goaltending anyways?

[referee99]

Originally Posted by bas2456

Well if the defender touched the ball after it hit the backboard, is it not goaltending anyways?

It was unclear if the ball was on its downward flight. I don't think it was, but lets say it wasn't.

[JRutledge]

You have to have 3 things to have Goaltending.

1. Ball must be completely above the rim.
2. Ball must be on its downward flight.
3. Ball must have a chance to go in.

If any of these things are not present, then you do not have a violation.

It is possible that one of these things was not present and the officials passed on the play. The backboard or the ball touching the backboard has nothing to do with this call the high school level. Only at the college level is the backboard a factor.


Peace

[referee99]

I'm talking about Basket Interference.
Part of the basketball may have been in the imaginary cylinder with the basket as its base.
Wanting to know where that area is on the back board.

Recently Andris Biedrinch of the Warriors was called for a violation when he knocked the ball off the flange during live action. In NBA it was goaltending (i think) but would have been basket interference in HS.

If the ball is contacting the backboard directly behind the basket part of the basketball MUST be in the cylinder, given the size of the ball.

At some point further away from the center of the backboard this must also be true. How far out can you go and have an automatic, provable by geometry basket interference?

[ref2coach]

Rim diameter is 18", Ball diameter is 9". The square in question is 18" tall and 24" wide. So once about 1/4 of the ball is within the square then it has penetrated the imaginary cylinder above the basket. So yes by geometry BI could be called it the ball is contacted after the referee observes that a 1/4 or more of the ball is inside the square.

[referee99]

Originally Posted by ref2coach

Rim diameter is 18", Ball diameter is 9". The square in question is 18" tall and 24" wide. So once about 1/4 of the ball is within the square then it has penetrated the imaginary cylinder above the basket. So yes by geometry BI could be called it the ball is contacted after the referee observes that a 1/4 or more of the ball is inside the square.

but what about the flange extending the ring out away from the board? that has to make that imaginary line closer to the center of the back board.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by referee99

I'm talking about Basket Interference.
Part of the basketball may have been in the imaginary cylinder with the basket as its base.
Wanting to know where that area is on the back board.

The backboard has nothing to do with that. There is not point on the back board that has anything to do with this kind of call. And the ball must be on the cylinder to have BI if you are not touching the ball. And if you are touching the ball, the ball must be above the cylinder.

Originally Posted by referee99

Recently Andris Biedrinch of the Warriors was called for a violation when he knocked the ball off the flange during live action. In NBA it was goaltending (i think) but would have been basket interference in HS.

I do not know all NBA terminology, but I bet that they consider similar things as BI. I do think they cannot hit the backboard, but that is something I am not sure about. I doubt what you described is GTing.

Originally Posted by referee99

If the ball is contacting the backboard directly behind the basket part of the basketball MUST be in the cylinder, given the size of the ball.

At some point further away from the center of the backboard this must also be true. How far out can you go and have an automatic, provable by geometry basket interference?

I think you are honestly trying to figure out a simple rule by using standards that are not present. This is not about the geometry of the backboard. If the ball is in the cylinder, there are things that cannot be done with the ball or the ring, net or ball under the right circumstances. I think you just need to review the rule and leave it at that. The backboard and the geometry of the backboard have nothing to do with the call of basket interference. And the box on the backboard is wider than the ring. Rule 4-6 covers this rule and you will not read anything about the backboard.

Peace

[referee99]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The backboard has nothing to do with that. There is not point on the back board that has anything to do with this kind of call. And the ball must be on the cylinder to have BI if you are not touching the ball. And if you are touching the ball, the ball must be above the cylinder.

Rut, if the ball was pinned by the defender on the gaudy red X in the image in the OP, can we agree that the defender may be touching the ball while the ball was in the imaginary cylinder with the basket as its base?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by referee99

Rut, if the ball was pinned by the defender on the gaudy red X in the image in the OP, can we agree that the defender may be touching the ball while the ball was in the imaginary cylinder with the basket as its base?

If the touching was not in the cylinder, where the ball touches the backboard might not be relevant.

As I said, I think you are taking a judgment call and trying to make a one size fits all application. If the ball is not in the cylinder, it is not BI. If you think it is in the cylinder (and certain things are present), then call a violation. You will find that at full speed you are not going to get a simple judgment based on a marking. If the ball hits the backboard does not mean it was touched at the very same spot.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by referee99

Rut, if the ball was pinned by the defender on the gaudy red X in the image in the OP, can we agree that the defender may be touching the ball while the ball was in the imaginary cylinder with the basket as its base?

That would be goaltending, not BI. As JRut has said, the backboard has nothing to do with BI.