I "T"ed up the score keeper.....

[Terrapins Fan]

No misprint. I "T"ed up the score keeper for the visitors today. He's the guy keeping the book at the table.

I report the foul "12 black Illegal use of the hands", and when I do, the coach yells ( and BTW, he is winning at the time by 10 points ) "She wasn't any where near the play" The book keeper yells " She wasn't any where near the play." Bang. T Because I am not going to have the score keeper yelling at me during the game.

We also sat the coach for the rest of the game. I have never "T"ed at score keeper, but I figure he is part of the coaches staff and therefore, coach gets to ride the bench for the rest of the game. Right?

BTW, 12 black was where I said she was and she did foul the player and it was only her 1st foul....3rd quarter for your processing info.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

No misprint. I "T"ed up the score keeper for the visitors today. He's the guy keeping the book at the table.

I report the foul "12 black Illegal use of the hands", and when I do, the coach yells ( and BTW, he is winning at the time by 10 points ) "She wasn't any where near the play" The book keeper yells " She wasn't any where near the play." Bang. T Because I am not going to have the score keeper yelling at me during the game.

We also sat the coach for the rest of the game. I have never "T"ed at score keeper, but I figure he is part of the coaches staff and therefore, coach gets to ride the bench for the rest of the game. Right?

BTW, 12 black was where I said she was and she did foul the player and it was only her 1st foul....3rd quarter for your processing info.

I disagree. The scorekeeper is not part of bench personnel, even if the person is clearly associated with one of the teams. That person isn't even sitting in the team bench area.

You should have simply removed the offending scorekeeper. No T.

The scorers and timers are part of the officials for the contest. They are the table crew. Check rule 2.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

No misprint. I "T"ed up the score keeper for the visitors today. He's the guy keeping the book at the table.

I report the foul "12 black Illegal use of the hands", and when I do, the coach yells ( and BTW, he is winning at the time by 10 points ) "She wasn't any where near the play" The book keeper yells " She wasn't any where near the play." Bang. T Because I am not going to have the score keeper yelling at me during the game.

We also sat the coach for the rest of the game. I have never "T"ed at score keeper, but I figure he is part of the coaches staff and therefore, coach gets to ride the bench for the rest of the game. Right?

BTW, 12 black was where I said she was and she did foul the player and it was only her 1st foul....3rd quarter for your processing info.

They're part of the officiating crew, not bench personnel. Remove the scorer drom the table, send him/her to the bench and use the visitors' book as the official book.

But you don't assess a T on the scorer.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

No misprint. I "T"ed up the score keeper for the visitors today. He's the guy keeping the book at the table.

I report the foul "12 black Illegal use of the hands", and when I do, the coach yells ( and BTW, he is winning at the time by 10 points ) "She wasn't any where near the play" The book keeper yells " She wasn't any where near the play." Bang. T Because I am not going to have the score keeper yelling at me during the game.

We also sat the coach for the rest of the game. I have never "T"ed at score keeper, but I figure he is part of the coaches staff and therefore, coach gets to ride the bench for the rest of the game. Right?

BTW, 12 black was where I said she was and she did foul the player and it was only her 1st foul....3rd quarter for your processing info.

Is this scorekeeper the official scorekeeper, or a representative of the visiting team that is permitted to sit with the table crew (for some reason that benefits V's record keeping)?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

No misprint. I "T"ed up the score keeper for the visitors today. He's the guy keeping the book at the table.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

They're part of the officiating crew, not bench personnel. Remove the scorer drom the table, send him/her to the bench and use the visitors' book as the official book.

But you don't assess a T on the scorer.

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Is this scorekeeper the official scorekeeper, or a representative of the visiting team that is permitted to sit with the table crew (for some reason that benefits V's record keeping)?

He wrote that it was indeed the visiting rep at the score table. The person was most likely serving as the 2nd scorer with the person provided by the home team being the official book.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

He wrote that it was indeed the visiting rep at the score table. The person was most likely serving as the 2nd scorer with the person provided by the home team being the official book.

That's what I thought... just wanted to be clear.

[GoodwillRef]

Is the visiting scorekeeper covered by this rule?

Basketball
NFHS
Rule 4: Definitions
Section 34: Players/Bench Personnel/Substitutes/Team Members - Article 2
Bench personnel are all individuals who are part of or affiliated with a team, including, but not limited to: substitutes, coaches, manager(s) and statistician(s). During an intermission, all team members are bench personnel.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Is the visiting scorekeeper covered by this rule?

Basketball
NFHS
Rule 4: Definitions
Section 34: Players/Bench Personnel/Substitutes/Team Members - Article 2
Bench personnel are all individuals who are part of or affiliated with a team, including, but not limited to: substitutes, coaches, manager(s) and statistician(s). During an intermission, all team members are bench personnel.

I would say no. Appears to me the intent of this rule is to cover those personnel who are traditionally located on the team's bench - not at the table.

PS - Rec game a few weeks back I had a scorekeeper and clock operator (one parent from each team) almost get into a fight. Man it was odd......I calmed them down - No T's!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Is the visiting scorekeeper covered by this rule?

Basketball
NFHS
Rule 4: Definitions
Section 34: Players/Bench Personnel/Substitutes/Team Members - Article 2
Bench personnel are all individuals who are part of or affiliated with a team, including, but not limited to: substitutes, coaches, manager(s) and statistician(s). During an intermission, all team members are bench personnel.

No. See rules 2-1 & 2-11.

[GoodwillRef]

I understand you rules references but he is not the "Official" scorekeeper.

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I disagree. The scorekeeper is not part of bench personnel, even if the person is clearly associated with one of the teams. That person isn't even sitting in the team bench area.

You should have simply removed the offending scorekeeper. No T.

The scorers and timers are part of the officials for the contest. They are the table crew. Check rule 2.

Agreed, just have him removed and replaced. The T was unjustied and you cant back it up with the rules.

[Terrapins Fan]

Originally Posted by IREFU2

Agreed, just have him removed and replaced. The T was unjustified and you cant back it up with the rules.

I understand your point. My point was that the coach did appoint him as the score keeper and therefore, yes a part of his crew.

I used to coach ( assistant ) and many times I had to do the books because we did not have a scorekeeper show up. I knew I was not allowed to coach from the table and I knew I was not allowed to criticize the officials from the table.

As usual it was not one thing that lead to the "T". I officiated this team about 2 or 3 weeks ago at their home. they have 3 coaches. As I was passing by the bench ( the far end away from the head coach ) Someone yelled at me about missing a call. As I passed the coach, I told her ( yes HER ) that someone was yelling at me from the end of the bench and she said, "Oh yeah, that's my assistant coach" I told her that I wasn't going to listen to anyone but her. She and her "other assistant" sitting next to her, yelled constantly during the game, I was trying not to "T" them up and succeeded.

So we come to yesterday's game, before the game started, I asked "who is the head coach?" The guy says. " You're looking at him" I say, then I don't want to hear anything from anyone but you. In the first quarter, the "assistant" coach is standing and coaching. I go to the bench and tell them that only the head coach can stand during the game, and "she" tells me that they are "co-coaches" I say, no HE is the head coach and only "HE" can stand. So they say, you mean only one of us can stand at a time.....I clarify. they behaved after that, until the problem with the table.

Thanks for your feed back.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

I understand your point. My point was that the coach did appoint him as the score keeper and therefore, yes a part of his crew.

No, sorry but that's not the way it works. He's part of your crew.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

My point was that the coach did appoint him as the score keeper and therefore, yes a part of his crew.

Your point is completely wrong, rules-wise,

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

I understand your point. My point was that the coach did appoint him as the score keeper and therefore, yes a part of his crew.

I used to coach ( assistant ) and many times I had to do the books because we did not have a scorekeeper show up. I knew I was not allowed to coach from the table and I knew I was not allowed to criticize the officials from the table.

Nor is a coach allowed to criticize the officials from the bench area.

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

As usual it was not one thing that lead to the "T". I officiated this team about 2 or 3 weeks ago at their home. they have 3 coaches. As I was passing by the bench ( the far end away from the head coach ) Someone yelled at me about missing a call. As I passed the coach, I told her ( yes HER ) that someone was yelling at me from the end of the bench and she said, "Oh yeah, that's my assistant coach" I told her that I wasn't going to listen to anyone but her.

Why would you make such a statement? There is no rule prohibiting an assistant coach from speaking with an official. You should answer polite questions from any coach. By the same token, you shouldn't allow yelling at a game official from any coach either.

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

She and her "other assistant" sitting next to her, yelled constantly during the game, I was trying not to "T" them up and succeeded.

Why are you actively trying not to charge a T to someone who clearly deserves one? That kind of thinking is insane. Either tell them to knock it off or assess the well-earned technical foul. The only thing that you succeeded in doing was sending the message to the them that it was okay to constantly yell at you. Don't make that mistake again.

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

So we come to yesterday's game, before the game started, I asked "who is the head coach?" The guy says. " You're looking at him" I say, then I don't want to hear anything from anyone but you. In the first quarter, the "assistant" coach is standing and coaching. I go to the bench and tell them that only the head coach can stand during the game, and "she" tells me that they are "co-coaches" I say, no HE is the head coach and only "HE" can stand. So they say, you mean only one of us can stand at a time.....I clarify. they behaved after that, until the problem with the table.

Thanks for your feed back.

Nicely done. (except for the part in red) See how well it works when you follow the proper protocol and don't mess around?