Up 45 and still pressing

[Mark Padgett]

Had one of those weird games tonight. Middle game of three JV girls. The home team coach is the main organizer of this league. His girls were obviously superior to their opponents.

By the time we were midway through the second half, his team was up by 45. They were still pressing and continued to press the entire game. They won by almost 50.

Neither my partner nor I said anything because this coach is scheduling us for the rest of the summer league and also because the other coach never said a word.

It still struck me as horsepucky.

Gee - it was more fun than a barrel of howler monkeys.

BTW - I had one funny play. It was an inbound on the endline. A1 inbounded and the pass was kicked by B1. I went to administer the resulting inbound in the same place and before I gave the ball to A1 she said, "Whoa - this is like that deja vu thingie."

I thought I had been transported into a Cheech and Chong movie.

[crew]

in situations such as these, the winning team is usually trying to practice their press and get better at it or just really hate the other team. me, i tend to give all the 50/50 plays to the losing team in hopes to break the press. but if their press is good and just breaking the other team down its hard to do anything but feel sympathy for the losing team.

[mick]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett

By the time we were midway through the second half, his team was up by 45. They were still pressing and continued to press the entire game. They won by almost 50.

Neither my partner nor I said anything because this coach is scheduling us for the rest of the summer league and also because the other coach never said a word.

It still struck me as horsepucky.

Mark,
I never say anything.
Everyone knows what's going on.
I am not inclined to change my game like crew does.
I merely bite down harder on my Fox.
mick

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by mick

Mark,
I never say anything.
Everyone knows what's going on.
I am not inclined to change my game like crew does.
I merely bite down harder on my Fox.
mick

I agree. Changing the way you call in a 50 point blowout requires empathy for the losing team. I refuse to feel
empathetic towards either team.

[Tim Roden]

I hate it. The other team hates it. But what are we suppose to do. We only manage the game, we don't coach it. The other coach may be practicing the press so assume innocence and don't let your feelings run away with you. I do have a tendency to call the plays tighter in that situation. This time of year have fun with it. If it were February and they were pressing like that, I wouldn't be so lenient in the situation.

[mikec]

Since summer games are still a part of the educational process, running up the scores is not acceptable. I inisted last year that a league invoke a 20 point rule. A team ahead by 20 in the second half could not press. During the regular season you cannot do anything about it.

If a team is blowing out someone and still pressing I call every little touch. If the coach is smart, he gets the message and backs off. High school basketball is an educational activity.

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
Neither my partner nor I said anything because this coach is scheduling us for the rest of the summer league...

Mark, I'm disappointed if that's the reason (at least one of them, I edited down your post which listed others). Why would the home coach, the tournament directing coach, the league directing coach, or anybody else get any extra consideration? I understand the instinct, but I'd hope that if thought something needed to be said or done, this wouldn't be a reason to stop you.

[echo]

Actually, I try to use situations like this to better myself. Do I have good position?, Am I trying to anticipate the call? Slow down, breathe, watch the play develope.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by A Pennsylvania Coach

Mark, I'm disappointed if that's the reason (at least one of them, I edited down your post which listed others). Why would the home coach, the tournament directing coach, the league directing coach, or anybody else get any extra consideration? I understand the instinct, but I'd hope that if thought something needed to be said or done, this wouldn't be a reason to stop you.

Obviously, you've never officiated

I think you're mixing apples with oranges here. The fact that this coach was in charge of this summer league has absolutely no bearing on how I normally call a game. What I meant was that I would not go out of my way to make a comment to him about pressing. Comments such as these are not part of the calling of a game, but are sometimes given in rec leagues as part of an official's perception that a coach is not displaying good sportsmanship. It's really not our business, but we do it anyway sometimes.

I figured he had a specific reason for doing it his way and I didn't want to draw unnecessary ire from him for criticizing his methods. It could very well be that this is how both coaches play the game, or perhaps he wanted to work on his press.

Also, I disagree with those who change the tightness of their calls in this situation to "send the coach a message." That just penalizes the players. I think that if you want to get a message to a coach about this and you feel that strongly about it, you should say something to the coach, not penalize his players.

[mikec]

I think you are taking summer league a little too serious. As a teacher, coach and official when a coach is out of line in a summer league game, I have no problem making small changes in how I call a game. It is not hurting the kids. they don't care who wins in JUne or July. They just want to play.

As for me, I work on my fundamentals, get in some extra running and have some fun.

Relax a little.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by mikec
I think you are taking summer league a little too serious. As a teacher, coach and official when a coach is out of line in a summer league game, I have no problem making small changes in how I call a game. It is not hurting the kids. they don't care who wins in JUne or July. They just want to play.

As for me, I work on my fundamentals, get in some extra running and have some fun.

Relax a little.

I guess things are different where you are. Around here, summer league is taken very seriously. HS coaches come to watch the teams, and the players try to impress those coaches so they will have a leg up when school starts and teams are picked. Plus - there are a lot of parents who attend and believe me, they care who wins.

[mikec]

I am in the S.F. bay area. While we have our share of gung ho summer coaches, things are obviously different. Are you an educator? To me, this is all part of the educational process , and if I see something that is wrong I will call someone on it, especially during summer when there is little or no control by school administrators, A.D's etc.

I try to work leagues that have a 20 point rule. No pressing in the second half when up by 20 or more. If there is no rule in the league I have been known to get it added.

Obviously, during the regular season this is impossible. Will a team up 40 and still pressing against an outmanned team get any breaks from me? No. As I said before, they get no breaks. As an example; if the ball goes out of bounds and it is close, figure who is getting the ball. Any contact on the press is a foul. A smart coach gets the message. Does it mean I am influencing the outcome of the game? No. the game is already decided. Does it mean I am trying to add a little sportsmanship to it. Yes.

If people disagree so be it. I have no problem. I feel very confident in doing it and will continue if the need arises. Now obviously, this does not happen often.

Now we all know that sometimes a huge lead is not safe. This can happen when two strong teams meet and one team is capable of coming back, I am not talking about that. I am referring to the team that can't even get the ball over halfcourt against a press. At the boys varsity level you do not see this often, but at the girls level, even varsity, it can happen with some regularity.

A coach up 45 and pressing in a summer league game needs some guidance. If no one else will give it, I will.

[Todd Springer]

I think one of the things we need to do as officials, is to recognize problem areas. If a team is starting to get frustrated, we need to be aware that something could happen. I agree with giving the benifit of doubt to the losing team. If I think a coach is trying to rub-it-in, then we are going to shoot a lot of free throws. I think we should do what is best for the game. I would never worry about not getting more games from a coach. If he is that type of person, I don't want to work his games anyway.

[mick]

Originally posted by Todd Springer
I think we should do what is best for the game.

Todd,
With that in mind

Do we favor the team behind?

Do we apply the rules with equal disregard of the score?

Do we interject our individual values of fairness?
mick

"The value of a sentiment is the amount of sacrifice you are prepared to make for it." - John Galsworthy, Windows [1922], act II

[Mark Padgett]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mikec
Are you an educator? To me, this is all part of the educational process , and if I see something that is wrong I will call someone on it

No, I am a referee, not an educator. My job is to call the game.

Will a team up 40 and still pressing against an outmanned team get any breaks from me? No. As I said before, they get no breaks. As an example; if the ball goes out of bounds and it is close, figure who is getting the ball. Any contact on the press is a foul. A smart coach gets the message. Does it mean I am influencing the outcome of the game? No. the game is already decided. Does it mean I am trying to add a little sportsmanship to it. Yes.

I disagree with this philosophy. While the win/loss outcome of the game may already be decided, your statement that you are an educator should preclude you from making calls that detract from the education of the players in the context of how they learn the correct way to play defense, etc. If you change your calls because you don't like the way a coach is behaving, then players (especially on that team) become confused because now their methods are illegal when those same methods and actions were legal and accepted earlier in the game. It is just as wrong for you to "punish" those players as it is for the winning coach to "punish" the opponents by running up the score. In fact, I think it is worse.

A coach up 45 and pressing in a summer league game needs some guidance. If no one else will give it, I will.

As I said before, you have no idea why the coach is doing this. He may be practicing his press and it may have been understood by the other teams that this was acceptable. Besides, I do not feel it is my role to "give coaches guidance." I just call the game the same from beginning to end according to the rules and the a/d theory.