Stopping game for shoe being untied

[Self]

Discussion last night on stopping live play for shoe being untied.

1.) A has ball, B is on defense. A is in the front court setting up a play. A1 says my shoe is untied. Referee stops play and begins game from point of interruption.

2.) Referee sees A1 shoe untied. A is setting up offense in the front. Referee stops play and tells player to tie his shoe. Then begins play from point of interruption.

3.) After made basket by A, during the brief deadball time, before B grabs the ball. Referee stops play so A can tie his shoes.

The 3 officials I talked to all said they would not stop play if A was on defense and A's shoe came off. But they would stop play in the 3 situations above, using rule 5-8-2D(Referee stops play for any other situations or any emergency).

What are your thoughts. I have always let them play on and just said tie your shoe. Or if they said timeout my shoes untied, I granted a timeout. What are your thoughts?

[bard]

I'm not the most experienced official on this forum, but I would base this partially upon the experience of the players. By high school, the players ought to know to double-knot their shoes and to find dead ball situations to be sure they are tied!

I've never interrupted a "live ball" to allow a shoe to be tied, whether the player is on offense or defense. After a made basket, if a player in elementary or perhaps Jr High is tying a shoe, I'll raise my hand and delay the throw-in.

I also try to inform the players that they don't get an automatic timeout just because their shoe is untied or even if they lose a shoe.

On that note, I'm more likely to stop play if a shoe comes off, because I find that to represent a significant danger.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

One of the rules changes made for the 1963-64 basketball season that the National Basketball Committee of the United States and Canada (the predecessor to the NFHS and NCAA Rules Committees) deleted a section of Rule 2 that allowed the game officials to stop the game or withold the ball from play so that a player could tie his/her shoe. The Rules Committee made mention of this deletion in an editorial comment in the rules that year. One can find a reference to the rule change in the NFHS 2000-02 Basketball Handbook on page 13 for year 1963. This rule change is still in effect under both NFHS and NCAA Men's/Women's rules.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
One of the rules changes made for the 1963-64 basketball season that the National Basketball Committee of the United States and Canada (the predecessor to the NFHS and NCAA Rules Committees) deleted a section of Rule 2 that allowed the game officials to stop the game or withold the ball from play so that a player could tie his/her shoe. The Rules Committee made mention of this deletion in an editorial comment in the rules that year. One can find a reference to the rule change in the NFHS 2000-02 Basketball Handbook on page 13 for year 1963. This rule change is still in effect under both NFHS and NCAA Men's/Women's rules.

Geeze Mark, I'll be the first to admit I have a LOT of
old junk in my basement, but I'll bet you a case of your
favorite brownpop that I do NOT have a copy of the 1963
nfhs rule book down there.

To answer the original question, age is a factor. If the
kids are young enough that I would consider tying their
shoes myself then I'll stop play. Otherwise keep playing.

[zebraman]

At all levels below high school, I'll stop the game to allow a shoe to be tied unless a player is driving to the hoop or shooting.

At the high school level, I will wait until there is a dead ball.

Z

[Doug]

good points guys, one thing to consider also is advantage/disadvantage.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I will be the first to admit that age MIGHT be a factor when applying this rule in realistic manner. Having said that, at the jr. H.S. level and above, there is no excuse for not applying the rule as written. Seventh graders and above are quite capable of tying their shoes in a manner that will keep them tied for the entire game. Remember, a team's coach is responsible for his players being properly attired and for the players to wear their equipment in the proper manner at all times.

[Andy]

On that note, I'm more likely to stop play if a shoe comes off, because I find that to represent a significant danger.

The loose shoelace flopping around for the player or any other player to possibly step on and cause a player to fall flat on his face is at least as much a danger as the shoe coming off, in my opinion.

I remember this discussion a while back on one of these boards, I believe the concensus was that stopping or delaying play for an untied shoe was a case - by - case basis.

[Self]

mark I have the IAABO 2001-2002 book. Where is the book you mention below.... Thanks.

"One can find a reference to the rule change in the NFHS 2000-02 Basketball Handbook on page 13 for year 1963"

[JAdams]

This subject came up a couple of years ago in one of our association's HS rule interp meetings. Citing player safety, our rules guru said to stop the game in all cases except on a shot or a direct move to the hole. If a coach chirps, explain that it's a safety issue, and "wouldn't s/he feel bad if a player got hurt because we overlooked it." In seven years, that's the way I've always done it and never have had a problem with a coach.

College may be different. Can't comment on that level.

[AK ref SE]

Stop the game when appropriate...dead ball after shot during the first three quarters to me is appropriate, stopping the play last minute of fourth quarter close game to me is not appropriate. Game management and preventive officiating is the key.

AK ref SE

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Self
mark I have the IAABO 2001-2002 book. Where is the book you mention below.... Thanks.

"One can find a reference to the rule change in the NFHS 2000-02 Basketball Handbook on page 13 for year 1963"

The Handbook is an NFHS book, not an IAABO book. It's published every other year, in opposite years from the Officials Manual.

Oh, and I do not stop the clock to allow a player to tie his/her shoe.

[JRutledge]

I am not stopping play at all unless the player themselves is distracted or is affected by the shoe not being tied during a live ball situation. Now I will not start a game or put the ball in play, but I am not going just stop play if all I have is an untied shoe. But if players are running up and down the court, I do nothing until play has stopped. But then again I do not see a lot of this in the first place at the levels I do. The higher you go up, the more this might be used as a tactic to stop play and get some kind of advantage out of it. So I would perfer not to do anything until play is over.

Peace

[Mark Padgett]

At least four or five years ago I was working a game with Dave. I think it was a youth league game, probably about 8th grade boys. Anyway, there were free throws in the 3rd quarter and Dave noticed one of the boys had an untied shoelace. Dave told him to tie it during the dead ball between shots. The kid bent down but kept screwing up and was taking a really long time. Dave turned toward the bleachers and shouted in a loud voice, "Is his mommy here?"

Everyone started laughing and the kid was laughing so hard it took him another 30 seconds or so to tie it.

Dave looked at the kid and said, "I have just two words for you. VEL.....CRO!"

I laughed so hard I almost wee-wee'd in my compression shorts.

But - I'm sure that's a lot more than you wanted to know.

[ScottParks]

I'll usually tell them that if they can't keep them tied, their mom will have to come out of the stands and do it for them.!