Horrible display of sportsmanship

[TrojanHorse]

Coaching at a 8th grade boys tournament this past weekend, My team and I were early and watched the game before us. Two rivals that usually results in a well played game. What was disturbing though was the actions of several players on on team.

During the 2nd qtr. Home team drives to the basket and two players from the visiting team collapse on him. A foul is called, and the player who has the foul called on him walks through the paint, throws his hands on his head and says in a loud talking voice, "unbelievable" He does this several times. I was expecting a T, but it never came..an official said something to him while shooting free throws.

Game progresses, kid picks up his third and again shows visible disgust. Nothing said

Late 4th quarter, not sure if he fouls out or what, but again shows visible disgust...he comes out..and he he proceeds to strike the bench at least 5-6 times. About 10 seconds later, his teammate comes out and he does the same thing. The coach says nothing, but sadly neither do the officials.

To make matters worse, after the game is over, the officials watch the post game handshake(not required, but no place really to go) and the same player talked about goes up to the officials and tells them to google reffering.

Just wondering what you all would say about this.

[Chess Ref]

I'm only in my 5th year and I'm already done with the Varsity coaches who act the fools.

An 8th grader, please, no brainer-second time he did his Steve Martin act-he's done.

[TrojanHorse]

Whats funny is that my kids are up in the stand laughing. Then I could hear them whispering, "coach would run us so much if we did that". Which is good. They already know me, I have told them to knock it off when I hear them say from the bench, "that's a foul".

Add to that, on Saturday, he played. If it were my team he wouldn't have made the trip. To each his own I guess.

[Nevadaref]

Unfortunately, there are far too many officials who ignore this kind of behavior.

You will hear all kinds of excuses for this, but it really comes down to not wishing to deal with it.

Sadly, some of those officials post on this forum.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

JRut,
You are correct when identifying the quality of some middle school game basketball officials. If I were doing this game, the player likely would not have gotten to this point. I am more tolerant of behavior than most. At the same time, players don't generally act like this during a middle school game. This type of behavior is usually reserved for the AAU/Ohio Youth Basketball post-season.

It is quite ironic that I am tolerant of this behavior as an official. As a coach, my players were NEVER allowed to say ANYTHING to an official, an opponent, an opposing coach, an opposing parent (or one of our parents) during a game. They were permitted to say "yes sir" or "no sir" in response to an official's question and that was it. No "palms to the heavens", no shaking heads, no smart comments, etc. As soon as they did, they came out of the game.

The only problem I see with what happened here is that next week the officials will likely not be as lenient and forgiving. While I do not like to give a middle school player a technical foul, I will certainly talk to him about his behavior. Generally, the player is only trying to see where the line will be drawn. Once I draw it -- and they sense I am serious about it -- they tend to stop it.

In this case, the player seemed to keep up the behavior after "the referee talked to the player during a free throw." While we do not know what the official said to the player, it is possible that the official did not take the next step after the behavior continued.

I have suggested to many new officials to be more tolerant of complaints when they first start because the complaints are probably accurate. At the same time, when a 14 year old starts showing up an adult official, action needs to be taken.

As a former coach, I would certainly hope that the coach takes the action. If he does not, I quite possibly have already spoken to the coach about the fact that one of his players is close to crossing the line. It appears as though the officials had multiple opportunities to take this step. If the coach takes no action, the technical should come as no surprise. In most cases, the coaches are generally happy to get the warning and take action on their own without the officials having to do anything else.

It appears as though a situation was escalating here and the officials -- experienced or not -- took no action.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

The only problem I see with what happened here is that next week the officials will likely not be as lenient and forgiving. While I do not like to give a middle school player a technical foul, I will certainly talk to him about his behavior. Generally, the player is only trying to see where the line will be drawn. Once I draw it -- and they sense I am serious about it -- they tend to stop it.

This should not be your concern. You cannot be concerned with what people will and will not do before you and after you. It is a losing battle if you try to worry about that. Do what you do and let the chips fall

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

I have suggested to many new officials to be more tolerant of complaints when they first start because the complaints are probably accurate. At the same time, when a 14 year old starts showing up an adult official, action needs to be taken.

I do not know about that comment. I do not think a kid complaining is right about a lot of things. They think like fans and claim they do nothing wrong.

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

It appears as though a situation was escalating here and the officials -- experienced or not -- took no action.

That is clear, but that does not mean they simply turned the other cheek. We all have our own idea of how to handle these things and some come from simple trial and error. It should be noted that none of us where there we do not know how egregious the actions were.

Peace

[Daryl H. Long]

Originally Posted by TrojanHorse

Whats funny is that my kids are up in the stand laughing. Then I could hear them whispering, "coach would run us so much if we did that". Which is good. They already know me, I have told them to knock it off when I hear them say from the bench, "that's a foul".

Add to that, on Saturday, he played. If it were my team he wouldn't have made the trip. To each his own I guess.

Sportsmanship starts with the coach. Glad to see you thought it important enough to teach it to your kids.

[Yakivegas]

Originally Posted by Daryl H. Long

Sportsmanship starts with the coach. Glad to see you thought it important enough to teach it to your kids.

And sportsmanship should continue with the parents. If my kid ever pulls anything like that, I'll bench her myself.

Sad to say though, but even at the 5th grade level, I see kids with terrible sportsmanship. One of the teams that we face frequently has a player (coach's daughter) that routinely mouths off to the officials: "Are you kidding?", "No way did I travel!". I rarely see a warning, and never a T.

In this case, it is easy to see where it comes from. Her mother (the coach) keeps up a steady stream of chirping at the officials during the game. In the 3 years that we've played them, she's only been warned to quiet down once.

[eyezen]

Originally Posted by TrojanHorse

...and the same player talked about goes up to the officials and tells them to google refereeing.

In no way shape or form am I condoning any of the players actions or comments, but deep down you got to admit that is pretty darn funny.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by TrojanHorse

To make matters worse, after the game is over, the officials watch the post game handshake(not required, but no place really to go) and the same player talked about goes up to the officials and tells them to google reffering.

Originally Posted by eyezen

In no way shape or form am I condoning any of the players actions or comments, but deep down you got to admit that is pretty darn funny.

"And what's more, those guys can't even spell............wait, I can't either."

[Jim Henry]

Originally Posted by TrojanHorse

Coaching at a 8th grade boys tournament this past weekend, My team and I were early and watched the game before us. Two rivals that usually results in a well played game. What was disturbing though was the actions of several players on on team.

During the 2nd qtr. Home team drives to the basket and two players from the visiting team collapse on him. A foul is called, and the player who has the foul called on him walks through the paint, throws his hands on his head and says in a loud talking voice, "unbelievable" He does this several times. I was expecting a T, but it never came..an official said something to him while shooting free throws.

Game progresses, kid picks up his third and again shows visible disgust. Nothing said

Late 4th quarter, not sure if he fouls out or what, but again shows visible disgust...he comes out..and he he proceeds to strike the bench at least 5-6 times. About 10 seconds later, his teammate comes out and he does the same thing. The coach says nothing, but sadly neither do the officials.

To make matters worse, after the game is over, the officials watch the post game handshake(not required, but no place really to go) and the same player talked about goes up to the officials and tells them to google reffering.

Just wondering what you all would say about this.

In my humble opinion no player on the floor should be making comments or doing actions that are unsporting or inappropriate, especially challenging an official. When I hear or see inappropriate remarks/behavior I say “No more. Next time it’s a technical.” If it is worthy of a foul, I T him/her up. If it is cussing; no warning.

I feel I need to be a teacher on the court, particularly with grade school players. I have warned players not to stomp their feet or chant while the opponent is at the free throw line or explained certain calls during the game, e.g. not knowing what a 1&1foul shot is.
During a dead ball after a foul, or held ball, I have called both teams together to discuss rough play under the boards. I usually say it loud enough for coaches and bench players to hear. I do this not to show boat but to make my point loud and clear.

My point is game management is part of our job, but we can also be teachers when it is apparent the coach is not managing the players. After a grade school game last week a parent from the losing team came to me and shook my hand. She thanked my partner and me for explaining to the players the rules on some of the calls we made. That was nice and appreciated!

[Man In Blue]

I am willing to bet this isn't the first time this player acted this way. Too often tournament officials don't call the T because they don't want to deal with the results of calling it. It is EASIER to pass on the T then have to deal with the coach and parent. And then the TD comes and backs the coach, player and parent (because they are the ones paying to be in the tournament). Ref's would be more willing to make the call if supported by the TD's.

What kind of logic is it that you don't want to call a T on a young player? When else do you learn? Also why would you tell young officials not call a T because you are probably wrong with your call? The ref may have been wrong with the first call but I bet they got the T right!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Man In Blue

I am willing to bet this isn't the first time this player acted this way. Too often tournament officials don't call the T because they don't want to deal with the results of calling it. It is EASIER to pass on the T then have to deal with the coach and parent. And then the TD comes and backs the coach, player and parent (because they are the ones paying to be in the tournament). Ref's would be more willing to make the call if supported by the TD's.

What kind of logic is it that you don't want to call a T on a young player? When else do you learn? Also why would you tell young officials not call a T because you are probably wrong with your call? The ref may have been wrong with the first call but I bet they got the T right!

A junior high tournament, really? I have not seen the JH Tournament as the hot assignment in most areas. Maybe that is what it is where you live, but I have never seen a JH tournament where the people assigning were not scrambling to get experienced and competent officials.

Peace

[Man In Blue]

In this area there are a group of guys who work 8-10 games per day (times $15). They do a bad job but want as many games as they can get. TD doesn't work hard to get better guys.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Man In Blue

In this area there are a group of guys who work 8-10 games per day (times $15). They do a bad job but want as many games as they can get. TD doesn't work hard to get better guys.

Fifthteen dollars? I get more for a running clock game during the summer.

And you wonder why you get the same people?

Peace