When does trail assume sideline responsibilities on a transition?

[ronny mulkey]

The manual is not very clear as to exactly when "new" trail assume sideline responsibilty. It uses verbage like "after determining sideline responsibility".

My questions are"

1. endline throw-in going length of court (no pressure) when does trail assume the sideline?

a. Immediately after handing ball to thrower?
b. Or, does lead assume responsibility until trail can get out to sideline?

2. endline throw-in going length of court (with pressure) when does trail assume sideline?

a. immediately after handing ball to thower
b. Or, does lead assume responsibilty until trail can get out to sideline?

[JRutledge]

The minute the official becomes the new trail if you are talking about 3 Person.

Peace

[ronny mulkey]

Rut,

So, on a throw-in, as soon as you hand the ball to the thrower?

[Nevadaref]

The new Lead will still have that part of the sideline which is in front of him as he moves down the court. The Trail will not have a great look at such a play, so it makes sense for the Lead to take the call. The Trail has everything that is behind the new Lead.

The new Trail assumes this responsibility as soon as possession changes and heads the other way or the ball becomes dead and a throw-in for the team going the other way will ensue.

Of course, there certainly are times when the new Lead should be ready to help with a sideline call.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey

Rut,

So, on a throw-in, as soon as you hand the ball to the thrower?

Yes.

If the Lead is doing their job or on the other end of the court who else is going to watch the sideline?

Peace

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The minute the official becomes the new trail if you are talking about 3 Person.

Peace

Agreed. That doesn't mean the New L shouldn't be ready to help on a (potential) OOB violation on the sideline early in the transition or on a long pass.

Sometimes, you just need to officiate and not worry about the strict wording of the mechanics books.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Agreed. That doesn't mean the New L shouldn't be ready to help on a (potential) OOB violation on the sideline early in the transition or on a long pass.

Sometimes, you just need to officiate and not worry about the strict wording of the mechanics books.

Blasphemy. That's not what it says on page 609 of the NFHS mechanics manual.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Agreed. That doesn't mean the New L shouldn't be ready to help on a (potential) OOB violation on the sideline early in the transition or on a long pass.

Sometimes, you just need to officiate and not worry about the strict wording of the mechanics books.

Agreed. This is what separates the art of officiating from the science of officiating.

[Scratch85]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The minute the official becomes the new trail if you are talking about 3 Person.

Peace

This is correct. In addition, the new Lead, during a quick transition and full court pressure is to assume responsibility for the sideline until the new Trail is able to obtain a postion to pick up sideline coverage. The new Lead should assume such sideline coverage until he/she assumes a position along the frontcourt endline.

IOW, the new Trail is responsible all the time and the new Lead is responsible for helping until they reach their position on the endline in the frontcourt.

[PSidbury]

Originally Posted by jrutledge

the minute the official becomes the new trail if you are talking about 3 person.

+1

[ronny mulkey]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Agreed. That doesn't mean the New L shouldn't be ready to help on a (potential) OOB violation on the sideline early in the transition or on a long pass.

Sometimes, you just need to officiate and not worry about the strict wording of the mechanics books.

Bob,

I have been told many times to give the new trail time to get "out there" before giving up the sideline responsibility. A rebound in the center of the lane and a rapid outlet that ends up in the bench area is going to be the trail's if thrown by A1 and lead's if thrown by B2? That's tough on the new trail everytime and tough on the new lead to NOT put a whistle on that play if thrown by A1.

Anyway, what does the verbage "after determining sideline responsibility" mean on these transition type plays?

Mulk

[ronny mulkey]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Yes.

If the Lead is doing their job or on the other end of the court who else is going to watch the sideline?

Peace

Visualize this throw-in: Trail on endline and all 10 players are in backcourt. Thow-in goes out on sideline 3' from lead and in front of table.

Or, A1 rebounds in the middle of lane and fires a bullet outlet that goes out on sideline at free throw line extended.
Or, B1 grabbed this same rebound and fired this same pass in the very same place. The play is the same except for who fired it out of bounds. Are the officials going to be that quick in "determining sideline responsibility".

What does that verbage mean?

Mulk

[JRutledge]

You are looking for a book answer or one size fits all answer to a very fluid situation.

If the play happens in front of the lead and he or she is on top of the play, then just like anything they should call what they see.

I think the problem is you are looking for a one or the other to make a call. The primary (especially in the back court) is the Trial's responsibility. But if the Lead has to help out, they can make a call. But if the Lead is not in position or on the other end of the court, then the Trail has to take responsibility for the play.

Peace

[ronny mulkey]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You are looking for a book answer or one size fits all answer to a very fluid situation.

If the play happens in front of the lead and he or she is on top of the play, then just like anything they should call what they see.

I think the problem is you are looking for a one or the other to make a call. The primary (especially in the back court) is the Trial's responsibility. But if the Lead has to help out, they can make a call. But if the Lead is not in position or on the other end of the court, then the Trail has to take responsibility for the play.

Peace

Rut,

I was with a college guy the other night and we had this play and we both had whistles. We had the same call. After the game, we had a spirited discussion and it was obvious that he did not like me putting a whistle on "his" line. I know college guys are like that much more so than high school guys (me).

This play got me looking for the exact moment that the new trail would assume sideline responsibility. You may be right that there is no one exact moment on every play.

Anyway, Nobody wants to address my question: What does the verbage mean? "after determining sideline responsibility"

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey

Bob,

I have been told many times to give the new trail time to get "out there" before giving up the sideline responsibility. A rebound in the center of the lane and a rapid outlet that ends up in the bench area is going to be the trail's if thrown by A1 and lead's if thrown by B2? That's tough on the new trail everytime and tough on the new lead to NOT put a whistle on that play if thrown by A1.

Sure, it's tough. But officials should work on having enough "game awareness" to know whether new T has a look at it. And / or have a patient whistle to see if T gets it. You should be ready to make the call if T doesn't.

Anyway, what does the verbage "after determining sideline responsibility" mean on these transition type plays?

Mulk

No idea. I don't have the mechanics book.