Ralph Nader and game 6

[djh3]

The fans are uninformed, because they don't read the rules. If they read they rules, they don't understand because there are written rules, and then there are the unwritten rules that are enforced. And nobody but an offical can tell whether or not the game is called fairly. And no official would ever be biased, so all games are called fairly. (How about being biased about no officials being biased?) Yet, because the rules are not being enforced as written officials use judgement, which results in the fans perception of unfairness. The NBA today.

Well, I don't see any officals on this board saying anything should change, yet you have a large number of fans who think something needs to change. This bothers me. Obviously an official could come up with better ideas than a fan.

Why not try and keep the written rules updated to reflect what is really happening? And to use the nifty NBA.com web page to help educate the fans, rather than just saying they are uniformed and uneducated. There are some fans who will try to keep informed.

In regards to bias. I am sorry but there are judges who have been on the take, DA's, police officers, politicians, etc.... I am not saying there is a conspiracy in this particular situation, however, I will not agree to a blanket statement that no official EVER is biased or influenced. No way. Not if they are human. Saying because you can bet on it at vegas, it must be not ever happen, does not convince me that it has NEVER happened or could NEVER happen. Do I think NBA officials are on the take? No. Do I think they could be influenced and might try to do what is best for the league, not what is actually happening on the court? I don't know. But I also don't understand if there is nothing wrong going on, why get so defensive about having somebody look at it?

I do think that there should be a way for the fans to forward to the league particular plays that they questions on and for the league to use some impartial (but educated) judges to see if there have been mistakes. These could be used to help educate the fans when there were no mistakes, and they could be used to help educate the officals on those rare times when they have made a mistake.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by djh3
...blah, blah, blah...

What you still fail to realize is that NBA officials are
subjected to intense, daily scrutiny. Literally every play
is looked at and commented on by NBA evalutors (the REAL
experts). The game is called the way it is expected to be
called. Take your complaints to NBA.com. I wonder if they
would pay as much attention to you as we are?

[rockyroad]

You know, we should also post Steven Spielberg's phone number and address here on this website...that way when we - as fans - don't like one of his movies, we can all e-mail him and call him and let him know what to do different next time around...or better yet - we could just stop buying tickets to his movies if we don't like them. What a great idea...maybe we could even use the same idea with NBA fans - if you don't like the product on the court, stop watching it for crying out loud. Stop spending your money on tickets and cable packages...but to come to an officials website and make statements about NBA officials and expect to not get blasted - that's pretty silly. And to expect David Stern and the other league administrators and owners to listen to you and your ideas - well, you might as well start calling Spielberg now...

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by djh3
In regards to bias. I am sorry but there are judges who have been on the take, DA's, police officers, politicians, etc.... I am not saying there is a conspiracy in this particular situation, however, I will not agree to a blanket statement that no official EVER is biased or influenced. No way. Not if they are human.

I've looked back over this thread and I don't see anything written that says there has never been a biased official. Sure there are biased officials. But there weren't any in Game 6 of the Lakers-Kings series. You have no idea the scrutiny these officials are put under by the NBA. Those who think they were biased are simply grasping for straws, trying to rationalize something they don't fully understand.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Sure there are biased officials.

Name one.

[not-an-expert]

This thread was fun to read and informative!

I can't help wishing the NBA were different...

but it's definitely NOT the officials' fault!

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by BktBallRef


Sure there are biased officials. [/B]

I am with Mark here. You have accused me of making many ridiculous statements and told me so. This is a very ridiculous one you just made.

Name one. Show evidence that there is one. Do not just shoot off at the mouth about something you cannot back up. But then again Tony, you are you.

Peace

[djh3]

Looks like I overstayed my welcome...based on the "blah, blah," quote from Dan_ref.

Thanks for the educational experience. In regards to rockyroad's comments about calling spielberg, it is kind of funny since Lucas did change his approach on episode II based on fans input from the previous star wars. Companies modify their products all the time based on customers input. The NBA is a product. The providers are the officials, the league, the players, etc... they all have a financial reason to want the best product. The fans the customers.

So, yes I have contacted the NBA. Could I just stop watching? Sure, and I am sure there are people who have done just that.

Thanks again, the part about the rules was very informative..although I still think they should reflect what is being called. And I realize the officals are reviewed, but the fans never see or hear about it.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by djh3


Thanks again, the part about the rules was very informative..although I still think they should reflect what is being called. And I realize the officals are reviewed, but the fans never see or hear about it.

You do not even understand what the rules are, how the heck are you going to say what affect they have on what is being called? But then again, go tell a pilot how to fly a 747 in heavy turbulance. When you do that, come back here and tell us or any official how to officiate a game. Better yet, bring you behind to a local Junior High game and we will see how well you know the rules.


Peace

[Edited by JRutledge on Jun 7th, 2002 at 07:26 PM]

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett

Name one.

Tommy Smart.

Mark, I'm not saying that I know of professional officials who are biased. I don't personally know but 3 or 4 who work on a D1 or pro level and they're all men of integrity. But I have worked with officials who were biased against a player or team. You want an example, I'll give you one. Tommy Smart.

Last season, I was officiating an adult rec league, 3 mna. With under 20 seconds to go in a 2 point game, the team that was behind was trying to foul. But one of my partners, whom we'll call Mr. Social because he's always firting with the scorer, would not call the foul. The contact was very physical. One of the players who was fouling got pissed and started yelling at my partner. This continued for several minutes after the game was over. Mr. Social did nothing. I tried to calm the kid down but it was no use. However, if Mr. Social didn't have the balls to pop him, I certainly wasn't. Three days later, I have the same team and Mr. Social. This particular player arrives for the game just prior to halftime. He enters the game and we immediately have a play involving him. I'm C, opposite table, and the play is directly in front of me. My partner is T. As the play evolves, I whistle a foul on this player. A millisecond after my whistle, Mr. Social blows too. I take the call, report and head back, opposite table. The next time down the floor, we have a similiar play. Once again, Mr. Social whistles the foul, except there is no foul. He amkes the call and the half ends about a minute later. At the half, I tell him, "You're making us both look bad when you make a call like that. We need to stay in our areas." He replies, "Hell no! I'm gonna foul that SOB out for what he did the other night!" And he did.

Now, granted, all this guy officiates is rec ball. But he's still an official, who made calls against a player based on his feelings towards that player. So, don't tell me I had the misfortune of calling with the only biased pofficial on the planet. These types of guys are out there. Fortunately, most don't advance very far, but they do exist.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by djh3
And I realize the officals are reviewed, but the fans never see or hear about it.

They aren't supposed to hear about it. An NBA official is an employee, just like you and I are for the company that employs us. You're no more entitled to see their reviews than they are to see your review.

[Stan]

I just recieved the book "Calling the Shots" by Earl Strom, as recomenended by rainmaker et al. I haven't finished it yet however, the first few chapters would prove very enlightening to ANYONE interested in understanding basketball officiating. I would highly recomend this book to the folks that are posting on this board that are critical of the practice of officiating based on advantage/disadvantage etc.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett

Name one.

I would say any official that changes his calls during a
blowout is, by definition, biased.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by djh3
Looks like I overstayed my welcome...based on the "blah, blah," quote from Dan_ref.

Hey, you didn't overstay your welcome, you are just beating
this thing to death. And the quote wasn't "blah, blah",
it was "blah, blah, blah"!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Hey, you didn't overstay your welcome, you are just beating
this thing to death. And the quote wasn't "blah, blah",
it was "blah, blah, blah"!

"blah,blah,blah!"