Lead call over the back foul(pushing)

[buildere8]

I am told by a senior Ref that a Lead Official should never call a pushing foul(over the back) in the paint area. It is the responsibility of the C or the T. Your thoughts?

If that's the case, then what is the lead even watching the paint for?

I don't agree that the Lead should never call the rebounding (on the back) fouls but the Center and Trail should have better angles to make these calls. A Lead making this call isn't a problem but if things are being done correctly by all 3 officials the C and T should have the better angles to make this kind of call.

Just my opinion based on what I have seen and been taught over the years.

[Scrapper1]

The higher the contact, the tougher it is for the Lead to see, simply because he/she is close to it. The C and T have a wider view and should have a decent angle. I won't say the Lead should "never" have it, but I think, in general, the outside guys have a better shot at getting it right.

On the other hand, the Lead has the best look at a push in the small of the back before the players jump. That's the one that is easiest for the Lead and hardest for the C and T.

But once the players jump and get up off the floor, those bumps from behind are harder for the Lead to see, IMO.

[mick]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

The higher the contact, the tougher it is for the Lead to see, simply because he/she is close to it. The C and T have a wider view and should have a decent angle. I won't say the Lead should "never" have it, but I think, in general, the outside guys have a better shot at getting it right.

On the other hand, the Lead has the best look at a push in the small of the back before the players jump. That's the one that is easiest for the Lead and hardest for the C and T.

But once the players jump and get up off the floor, those bumps from behind are harder for the Lead to see, IMO.

I agree, particularly if the Lead remains stationary near the lane.
Backing away [going wider], 4-6 steps, may improve a poor angle.

Originally Posted by mick

I agree, particularly if the Lead remains stationary near the lane.
Backing away [going wider], 4-6 steps, may improve a poor angle.

If you're in a gym that allows a wide angle, by all means, use it! I worked in a gym the other night where there's like 10 feet beyond the end line to the wall, so I went about 5 feet off the end line to get a better angle. You can see quite a bit from that angle, which sometimes seems better than any angle that I could have as a trail in 2-man.

[mick]

Originally Posted by buildere8

I am told by a senior Ref that a Lead Official should never call a pushing foul(over the back) in the paint area. It is the responsibility of the C or the T. Your thoughts?

Bovine scat.
Lead generally has waist-up and a very good look at any displacment in the lane.

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by buildere8

I am told by a senior Ref that a Lead Official should never call a pushing foul(over the back) in the paint area. It is the responsibility of the C or the T. Your thoughts?

"Never say never and never say always."

A game where the T and C are being active and getting the rebounding fouls makes for a much better game (it means they are staying actively involved and not bailing out), but there are going to be occasional situations where the L has to help out on a rebounding foul.

[dbking]

I'm with MTD on this one.

L needs to be able to see between the players to see if there is really contact. Many times L is guessing if there is contact or not. In two person mechanics, L has no option other than guess.

IMO, the hardest transition from 2 whistle to 3 whistle is the L position. L needs to be very patient with whistle and quit thinking there is a foul and knowing that there is a foul. Trusting T and C to be in position to make the fouls. T and C need to be able to see through the lane and take the match ups that they have a clean view of. Displacement is the key in calling these fouls. If you can't see between the players then you have business calling the foul.

Players are so much more athletic, quicker and jump out of the gym. THe higher the level you work the better you need to be at this.

[beachbum]

I'm a second year guy, so help me out here.

In two man, I'm told to watch my primary area and in the T, that does not include the paint. So is an official considered ball watching in they are calling over the back in the paint, when the play is at the basket?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by beachbum

I'm a second year guy, so help me out here.

In two man, I'm told to watch my primary area and in the T, that does not include the paint. So is an official considered ball watching in they are calling over the back in the paint, when the play is at the basket?

So if all 10 players go to the paint, you are not calling anything that you obviously see?

Peace

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by beachbum

I'm a second year guy, so help me out here.

In two man, I'm told to watch my primary area and in the T, that does not include the paint. So is an official considered ball watching in they are calling over the back in the paint, when the play is at the basket?

The primary are during a rebound is slightly different from the primary area during and offensive play.

Look at the players on your side of the basket and up the middle of the lane.

[PIAA REF]

I like when C can get the pushes on rebounds. I go over that in my pregame with whoever I am working with. And with my playoff crew we seldom have a push on a rebound called by the lead. That being said, I don't think it is wrong for lead to call it. If C passes or misses and it needs to be called then by all means go a head lead and call it.
One example that I really see is a rebound going the the short corner on leads side. This probably would be seen best by lead. (Unless Trail closes down).

[BktBallRef]

Don't calling a rebound foul if you're straight-lined and that applies to L, C, and T.

Contact on the head or arms, that's a different story.

[AKOFL]

This misconseption may stem from the T not wanting to get beat down the court and does not close in for the rebounding action. I probably wouldn't want my partner callin in the key from the 28' mark either. Up here they are wanting all officials to "stay home" and help with the rebounding. I'm sure it is the same elsewhere. If the T closes down and the C also they both should have a good angle an the painted area. No matter where you are, move to improve.