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-   -   Name changed in book at halftime (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/50845-name-changed-book-halftime.html)

derwil Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:15am
Nevada is so...........subtle.

I'd first check to see if there was a sheet of paper with the boys names/numbers supplied to the table from which the info was copied into the book. If there is a sheet and the name is correct on the paper, the coach has fulfilled their obligation under the rules. Change the name and play on.

If the name is incorrect and was copied directly from the paper or there is no sheet, and the book has not yet been changed then ask the coach if it's worth the T to change the name in the score book. Not to get into an argument on intent of the rule but it does say to supply the number and name....wrong name is still a name and I would not give a T if the book wasn't changed.

If the name was changed already, no choice but to inforce the penalty.

Question: What if the name was correct but spelled incorrectly (Kimberly Vs. Kymberly etc.). Book is caught changing the name in the book....what now? Ummm after reading the thread again, BillyMac already had something like I just added.....Great Job Billy!! Well thought out, you are one smart guy!

Istillgotit23 Sun Jan 11, 2009 02:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 567222)
If you don't care enough to make the effort to do it right, then please stop officiating. You are an embarrassment to the rest of us. :mad:

It would also be really nice if you would get a clue when it comes to the rules. :( Right now you don't know your head from a basketball.
This was a VHSL Boys Varsity contest, all the i's should be dotted and the t's crossed......

Istillgotit23 Sun Jan 11, 2009 02:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by derwil (Post 567235)
Nevada is so...........subtle.

I'd first check to see if there was a sheet of paper with the boys names/numbers supplied to the table from which the info was copied into the book. If there is a sheet and the name is correct on the paper, the coach has fulfilled their obligation under the rules. Change the name and play on.

If the name is incorrect and was copied directly from the paper or there is no sheet, and the book has not yet been changed then ask the coach if it's worth the T to change the name in the score book. Not to get into an argument on intent of the rule but it does say to supply the number and name....wrong name is still a name and I would not give a T if the book wasn't changed.

If the name was changed already, no choice but to inforce the penalty.


Question: What if the name was correct but spelled incorrectly (Kimberly Vs. Kymberly etc.). Book is caught changing the name in the book....what now? Ummm after reading the thread again, BillyMac already had something like I just added.....Great Job Billy!! Well thought out, you are one smart guy!
the info was copied from the visitors book to the home "official" book, so the visitors made the mistake.........

Istillgotit23 Sun Jan 11, 2009 02:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranjo (Post 567218)
Hey Home Boy - Welcome to the forum!:D
Good to be here, thanx for the warm welcome......

Camron Rust Sun Jan 11, 2009 04:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Padgett (Post 567172)
I really don't understand why we need their names. We call everything by number. As far as I'm concerned, all the kids could each be named "Hey You" and it wouldn't make a darn bit of difference. In fact, I don't care if the kids even have names.
Why do they need names? So the opponents know who is starting. Otherwise a team could scramble their numbers every game and keep their warmups on until they step out for the jump...basically defeating the purpose of providing lineups and starters 10 minutes before the game.


And, yes, this is a T. They basically added a new name to the book per 10-1-2b. And applied a number that was listed for someone else...perhaps violating 10-1-2e....but that doesn't really matter since there is only one T applied for all elements of Article 2.

Adam Sun Jan 11, 2009 08:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 567145)
You tell them to supply the names as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee (Post 567167)
easier said then done for lower level games sometimes -- the effort is not worth the hassle.
What hassle?

"Coach, I see numbers, but to avoid the T, we need to have names as well. I'll give you an extra minute to do that."

At lower levels (which is really the only place this would be an issue), we usually don't hit them at the 10 minute mark anyway.

BillyMac Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:29am
Inquiring Minds Want To Know ???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by derwil (Post 567235)
BillyMac already had something like I just added. Great Job Billy!! Well thought out, you are one smart guy!
Thanks, but to be honest, this, i.e. understanding administrative technical fouls, is one of my goals for the season so I don't mind spending time pondering the various permutations of the penalties (I think I've been reading too many of mbyron's posts lately), I had the day off yesterday, since my game got snowed out, so I had lots of extra time on my hands, and, most importantly, I slept at a Holiday Inn Express Friday night.

I still have several questions about this situation, the most important being, does the ball becoming live at the toss to start the game end the requirements of NFHS 10-1-1, at which point the requirements of NFHS 10-1-2 kick in, or do the requirements of NFHS 10-1-1 last until the end of the game when the officials leave the visual confines of the court?

BillyMac Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:35am
"Here's My Roster And Starting Lineup" ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by derwil (Post 567235)
Check to see if there was a sheet of paper with the boys names/numbers supplied to the table from which the info was copied into the book. If there is a sheet and the name is correct on the paper, the coach has fulfilled their obligation under the rules. Change the name and play on.
Rookies: derwil makes an excellent point here. Please take note. The requirement of 10-1-1 is not that the scorebook be 100% correct. The requirement of 10-1-1 is that team supply the scorer with the name and number of each team member who may participate and designate the five starting players at least 10 minutes before the scheduled starting time.

bob jenkins Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 567222)
If you don't care enough to make the effort to do it right, then please stop officiating. :mad:

Oh please. That's more than a little over the top.

In some (I'd guess many) areas, enforcing all the administrative requirements for Saturday morning Frehsman "C" games, or any "rec league" game would quickly brand you as an OOO.

deecee Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 567317)
Oh please. That's more than a little over the top.

In some (I'd guess many) areas, enforcing all the administrative requirements for Saturday morning Frehsman "C" games, or any "rec league" game would quickly brand you as an OOO.
My point exactly -- as much as I would love to enforce EVERY rule in the book for EVERY level of play -- in reality this is just not possible

ranjo Sun Jan 11, 2009 07:12pm
Follow-up
 
This afternoon, our board interperter ruled that the crew was correct in administering a technical foul based on 10-1-1 and 10-2-b. Therefore I concur with his ruling. :cool:

Nevadaref Sun Jan 11, 2009 09:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 567317)
Oh please. That's more than a little over the top.

In some (I'd guess many) areas, enforcing all the administrative requirements for Saturday morning Frehsman "C" games, or any "rec league" game would quickly brand you as an OOO.
Sorry, bob, but I have to agree with Snaqs in post #21. It's not a hassle.
Proper administration of the game is important. It should be done right for all games.

Now how an official judges traveling or 3-seconds during the game is another matter.

muxbule Mon Jan 12, 2009 03:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee (Post 567349)
My point exactly -- as much as I would love to enforce EVERY rule in the book for EVERY level of play -- in reality this is just not possible
So how do you decide which rules to set aside if you can't enforce EVERY rule? We don't have freshman game rulebook or a JV rulebook and then the varsity rule book. Last I looked they all play by the same rules and we are there to enforce them to the best of our ability.
Rec league is a different animal IMO.

SCalScoreKeeper Mon Jan 12, 2009 03:24am
Details,Details,Details!
 
Varsity scorers like officials are supposed to be the best of the best! This means knowing the kids names (First and Last) and numbers for the team(s) that you are scoring for. In order to keep this from happening to me I did what was suggested in one of the replies and have been typing out the varsity rosters (I work both boys and girls varsity!). That way all I have to do is give a copy of the appropriate roster to our opponent's scorekeeper. This could have been caught in pre-game if the home scorer had made just a little extra effort. All he/she had to do was ask the visiting coach to verify that all information was correct on the paper. If it was wrong then visiting HC could make the corrections.
It also means dressing and conducting ourselves in a professional manner! I take my job seriously from dress (Golf shirt with school's name/slacks or tie/slacks) to how I handle a game (cell phone on silent and in my bag, communication with fellow table officials & floor officials).


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