Returning after TO

[slow whistle]

I know what the rule/casebook will tell me, but I wanted to get some real feedback on how you all handle the delays in returning following time-outs. I'm not talking about individuals, talking about whole teams that don't even think about breaking the huddle until the second horn. This is how it usually goes for me:

*First few TO's early in the game, not as much going on, we can usually get them to break the huddle by the second horn.
*As the game goes on, situations get more intense, timeouts get longer. We get to a point where we are no longer breaking huddles by the second horn. At this point I may even stick around and say to the coach something to the effect of "coach we need to start breaking these huddles sooner or we will start putting the ball down."
*Now we get to end of game, key situation, now the timeout lasts even longer, you have to drag them out of the huddle after the second horn, but who is going to put the ball down and start counting in this situation in the game?

Again I know how the books tell us to handle this situation, but having worked many games with state finals caliber officials I have RARELY seen one of them put a ball on the floor and start a count. IMO, however, this CAN give a team an advantage if they are consistently taking longer to get out of the huddle....how do you all handle? Do you even talk about this in pre-game (not part of my pre-game, can't remember hearing it in a pre-game). How many of you put the ball on the floor on a consistent basis? This is something that you really need to have the whole crew on the same page with to be consistent. Or is this something I need to just quit thinking about altogether?

Thanks for the feedback!

[Adam]

Warn them the first time they don't break. The second time, put the ball down. You won't have any more trouble. If you keep giving warnings, they'll keep doing it.

It wouldn't hurt to mention it to each HC in pre-game either. In addition to whatever you discuss, "tonight we will begin play on the 2nd horn... with or w/out your players."

It's worked well for me when I've been the R.

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

It wouldn't hurt to mention it to each HC in pre-game either. In addition to whatever you discuss, "tonight we will begin play on the 2nd horn... with or w/out your players."

It's worked well for me when I've been the R.

I like that thanks - since I see no copyright sign I'm using it!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

It wouldn't hurt to mention it to each HC in pre-game either. In addition to whatever you discuss, "tonight we will begin play on the 2nd horn... with or w/out your players."

It's worked well for me when I've been the R.

40% of my coach pregame is about timeouts.

1. Are your players properly equipped?
2. Let us know right away what you want for a timeout, or I'll have to go with a 60.
3. We're playing at the 2nd horn, so please have your kids out by then.
4. Please remember to stay in your coaching box.
5. Sportsmanship blah blah blah.

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Warn them the first time they don't break. The second time, put the ball down. You won't have any more trouble. If you keep giving warnings, they'll keep doing it.

Agreed, but the problem is with the consistency - ie "Hey they didn't break the last huddle and you didn't put it down on them!" Also need to be sure that if you are going to put it down on team A this time your partner(s) better damn well do it the next time team B doesn't break on time....which is why I wanted to get a feel as to who does this consistently...I can't imagine that I've just been working with bad officials over the last 5+ years of varsity ball I have done it on occassion, but if we are all being honest we could do this every game on at least once.

[Refsmitty]

My partner - rightfully so - is a stickler for this and has put the ball down twice - without a peep from the coach - because we warn them in the pre game to be ready to play - 2nd horn.

[slow whistle]

I just dread the situation where you rightfully put the ball down on Team A in the third quarter, then get to 4 seconds left in the game and Team B is trailing by 2 with the ball and is a few seconds late breaking the huddle....you either 1) put the ball down and potentially end a great game on that garbage or 2) catch an earful (rightfully so) from Team A coach about how you did it to his team earlier...I suppose this is one of those situations where officiating becomes more art than science..

[Adam]

If you put the ball down on one team, by all means do it to the other team. What I've seen, though, is that both teams react well when you have to do it.

If one team lingers in the huddle with 4 seconds left after you've already put it down on the other team, it's their fault. Any decent coach will know you're gonna have to do it.

[OHBBREF]

On the first horn get int there and bust it up, be a pest.
this probably isn't as easy in HS but in NCAA there is usually someone in charge of telling the coach to get them out of the huddle, find that person and make them your best friend - get their help to get them out of the huddle.

these are things that you do not want to have happen in your games - and IMO need to be proactive to avoid.

we have even told a little white lie to get them out,
"we are putting the ball in play now!"

[Adam]

Some think you should avoid putting it down (as OH suggests) due to regional preferences, others (me included) think one time is all it really takes. This is the one thing the opposing coach will notice and adjust to, as well.

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Some think you should avoid putting it down (as OH suggests) due to regional preferences, others (me included) think one time is all it really takes. This is the one thing the opposing coach will notice and adjust to, as well.

Seems to me that IL is a "region" (possibly unspoken) where this doesn't happen much in my experience...others from IL will probably correct me, but I know I haven't seen it this season, and can't recall if I saw it last season..

[Adam]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

Seems to me that IL is a "region" (possibly unspoken) where this doesn't happen much in my experience...others from IL will probably correct me, but I know I haven't seen it this season, and can't recall if I saw it last season..

Since moving to Colorado, the closest I've come to putting the ball down was last week in a JV girls game. Home came out of the first quarter break and the first couple of timeouts just a bit slow (right after the 2nd horn). We talked as a crew and addressed it (we got more agressive in the huddle) and the problem went away.

One time, a team broke out right at the 2nd horn and the other coach was yelling that we needed to put the ball down.

[dbking]

On the first occurance, take a little longer by either c or T and tell each coach that they need to be ready to play on the second horn.

Make sure that the two referees on top of key or blocks go to each huddle and tell an assistant that it was the first horn. Stay there and if they are not breaking up step into the huddle and tell the head coach that we are playing on the second horn.

IMO, use the ball on the floor as an absolute last effort ditch effort. Be proactive and the teams almost always respond. I have called both coaches to the table if a second occurane happens and they are not responding. This has always worked for me. In varsity games, I have not put ball on floor in 15 years. This is probably a bad omen....

[Scratch85]

So far we have just mentioned putting the ball on the floor. What if the throw-in team was ready and the defending team was breaking as the second horn sounded. Would you be less likely to put the ball in play after you have enforced it earlier in the game?

I don't see it much in our area either. When I do see/do it, it is usually the throw-in team or both that are delaying. I also wouldn't put the ball in play until my partners are in place. If they are hustling the huddle, it usually buys them a few seconds.