you make the call...

[buttsco]

In a pick up game two players from the same team simultaneously grab for a rebound. Not knowing it is there teammate they are contending with, they attempt to seize the ball. As they are both clutching the ball they bound several steps, both still feverishly clutching onto the ball. A player on the opposing team called for a travel violation. I contended that since it was clear that neither had gained possession of the ball, there could be no travel. Please advise. Thanks.

[Hawks Coach]

I am trying to answer some of these, but do not claim to be as expert as some of you. As I read 4-12-1, it appears that player control has been established (if one assumes that during all of this tugging back and forth at least one player is holding the ball). The exception to team control for a jump ball situation in 4-12-5 should not apply and it does not appear that there is an exception for two players on the same team holding the ball.

If it is two players on opposite teams tugging at the ball, I believe that it is AP arrow because the simultaneous possession comes into play before the traveling could have occurred. Is that correct?

[BK]

Case book--4.42.2b

A1 and A2 jointly grab a rebound and each moves one foot before realizing they are teammates. A1 lets go and A2 dribbles away.
Ruling--Legal, neither player moved the pivot foot.

In the case you describe, it would be a violation, but the simultaneous possession basically had nothing to do with it.

[Hawks Coach]

What if A1 and B1 grab the rebound simultaneously, and A1 immediately takes two steps while attempting to wrest the ball from B1? Does the held ball occur immediately, meaning that the travel happened after the ball was dead?

I have seen traveling called in held ball situations. This weekend our opponents lost the ball when one of our players on defense grabbed the ball, tugged hard, and forced the other player to lose her balance and take several steps. I thought that it was the wrong call, but was not sure.

Looking further, it says in 4-25-1, "a held ball occurs when opponents have their hands so firmly on the ball that control cannot be obtained without undue roughness." It seems to me that the second situation I have described here should really be a held ball, and I believe that the rebound would be as well. Is this correct?

[This message has been edited by Hawks Coach (edited February 28, 2000).]

[b_silliman]

If teammates secure a rebound together and get into a tugging match, then someone's feet are moving and it is traveling.
In almost every case where you see this happens, it has been commonplace to call a travel; and, it is accepted by most players and fans. However, maybe we have conditioned people to expect this call through our own incompetance i.e. not watching the feet to see if someone moves?

[Tom Cook]

As soon as either teamate moves a pivot foot it is traveling. Each has to keep a pivot foot the same as if he/she had sole posession of the ball.