Mind your own business?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by LDUB

Sorry, you are wrong, it is not my job to do so, it is the teams' jobs. You sound like some coach trying to blame the officials when his team just got caught with 6 players.

LDUB:


IF YOU INTEND TO BE A SUCCESSFUL BASKETBALL OFFICIAL YOU HAD BETTER DAMN WELL BE COUNTING PLAYERS BEFORE YOU PUT THE BALL INTO PLAY. TO PUT THE BALL INTO PLAY WITHOUT COUNTING PLAYERS IS ON OF THE BIGGEST SINS A BASKETBALL OFFICIAL CAN COMMIT. IT IS NOT YOUR JOB TO PLAY GOTCHA WITH A TEAM. YOUR ATTITUDE ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTS ME.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B]

MTD, Sr.

LDUB, I dont know if you're an IAABO official or not, but per Substitution Procedures & Guidelines

#6. The official responsible for substitutions shall display the stop clock signal until all substiutions are completed & players are counted.

[grunewar]

MTD - I could barely read your post. Do you have a strong opinion on this subject?

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

IF YOU INTEND TO BE A SUCCESSFUL BASKETBALL OFFICIAL YOU HAD BETTER DAMN WELL BE COUNTING PLAYERS BEFORE YOU PUT THE BALL INTO PLAY. TO PUT THE BALL INTO PLAY WITHOUT COUNTING PLAYERS IS ON OF THE BIGGEST SINS A BASKETBALL OFFICIAL CAN COMMIT. IT IS NOT YOUR JOB TO PLAY GOTCHA WITH A TEAM. YOUR ATTITUDE ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTS ME.[/COLOR][/SIZE]

MTD, Sr.

Do you even read the other posts in this discussion?

Originally Posted by LDUB

Of course I count the players.

I do not see what the big deal is. Someone commented that if there are 6 players the officials caused the problem. That is not correct and I said that. You obviously do not understand the rules of basketball and/or do not read what I have written. If you are really that disgusted I suggest you reread this discussion.

[Ignats75]

Originally Posted by LDUB

Do you even read the other posts in this discussion?



I do not see what the big deal is. Someone commented that if there are 6 players the officials caused the problem. That is not correct and I said that. You obviously do not understand the rules of basketball and/or do not read what I have written. If you are really that disgusted I suggest you reread this discussion.

You have yet to answer the question. If you see there are 6 players on the floor during a substitution, do you hold up play?

Please answer. YES or NO.


The fact that there are 6 players on the floor is the officials fault in this context:

Proper game management includes not allowing substitutes to enter until beckoned. Do you agree?
Trail usually beckons them on. When you are Trail in this situation do you hold the stop clock sign until the substituted personnel exit the floor?

If there are 6 players on the floor when you follow this procedure, HOW DID THAT HAPPEN? The only way this happened, either you did not properly count or didn't bother to count. YOUR FAULT.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

You have yet to answer the question. If you see there are 6 players on the floor during a substitution, do you hold up play?

I already answered that.

Originally Posted by LDUB

Yes, of course I would say something.

Originally Posted by Ignats75

Proper game management includes not allowing substitutes to enter until beckoned. Do you agree?
Trail usually beckons them on. When you are Trail in this situation do you hold the stop clock sign until the substituted personnel exit the floor?

Yes, of course that is the correct procedure.

Originally Posted by Ignats75

If there are 6 players on the floor when you follow this procedure, HOW DID THAT HAPPEN? The only way this happened, either you did not properly count or didn't bother to count. YOUR FAULT.

How is that not the fault of the team? They sent 3 guys in and only 2 came out. Sure the officials could have noticed but for whatever reason they did not. That does not make it the officials fault, it is the team's responsibility to have 5 players. If it was actually a mistake by the officials then the team would not be charged with a foul. This is no different than having a double violation on a free throw when the teams line up in the wrong spots.

[just another ref]

This has dissolved into a word game. It's nobody's fault or it's everybody's fault. I prefer to think of it this way. It can certainly be considered a mistake by the officials, but it is ultimately the responsibility of the coach. As far as I'm concerned, we, as officials may blame ourselves if this happens, but the coach has no right to blame us.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

You have yet to answer the question. If you see there are 6 players on the floor during a substitution, do you hold up play?

Please answer. YES or NO.


The fact that there are 6 players on the floor is the officials fault in this context:

Proper game management includes not allowing substitutes to enter until beckoned. Do you agree?
Trail usually beckons them on. When you are Trail in this situation do you hold the stop clock sign until the substituted personnel exit the floor?

If there are 6 players on the floor when you follow this procedure, HOW DID THAT HAPPEN? The only way this happened, either you did not properly count or didn't bother to count. YOUR FAULT.

While I feel it's my responsibility to count players and do my best to avoid the situation, it's not MY FAULT if it does happen. I don't get the technical foul, after all.

This happens about once every two seasons with me. I don't lose sleep over it. Whack, shoot, move on.

[BillyMac]

While some posters in this thread have stated that's it's the coaches responsibility to have five players, at least one poster has indicated that it's the team's responsibility. For those who may be confused by this, by rule, not mechanic, it is the team's responsibility, not the coach's, and the technical foul penalty goes to the team.

Penalized if discovered while being violated: A team shall not have more than five team members participating simultaneously. Team technical foul. A team technical foul is charged if recognized by an official before the ball becomes live following the first dead ball. If it was not recognized by either official, but was called to their attention after the ball became live following the first dead ball, it is too late to assess any penalty.

Before some esteemed Forum members get all over me, I am simply clearing up some confusion that may have appeared in this thread, by rule. I am one who believes that, by mechanic, it is the officials responsibility to wait until they are sure that there are five players from each team, before putting the ball in play. Of course, this won't prevent a player from simply running out onto the court during a live ball.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

IT IS NOT YOUR JOB TO PLAY GOTCHA WITH A TEAM.

Like they say in those VISA commercials: PRICELESS.

"It is not your job to play gotcha with a team". © 2009 Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.: I expect my 10% copyright agent's commission based on any income generated by the use of this copyrighted quote. For IRS purposes, cash please, no checks (no money trail, no problems). Sunday is visiting day at the prison, and I have to go and visit my accountant later today.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

IT IS NOT YOUR JOB TO PLAY GOTCHA WITH A TEAM.

I see nowhere in his posts where he's trying to "play gotcha with a team."